A former Epic Systems employee filed a class-action lawsuit Friday against Verona health care software giant Epic Systems, alleging that he and potentially another 1,000 past and present Epic employees were not paid overtime wages to which they were entitled.

William Parsons, a lawyer for former Epic worker Evan Nord-

gren, declined to say how much money could be involved in the case but said “we believe it’s significant.”

Nordgren was a quality assurance employee at Epic but has since left the company and is attending UW Law School.

The lawsuit, filed Friday in U.S. District Court, alleges that Epic denied overtime pay to Nord-

gren and other quality assurance employees over a three-year period preceding the filing of the lawsuit.

Parsons said that under state and federal law, workers are entitled to overtime pay at time-and-a-half unless they fall under one of several exemptions specified in those laws. He said he does not know which exception Epic claims the quality assurance workers fall under.

“Epic’s employees, including entry level or non-technical employees, are entitled to all the pay they worked hard to earn,” Parsons said in a statement. “Wisconsin businesses have an obligation to pay their employees fairly and must comply with federal and state labor laws. The employees we represent worked many overtime hours for which they were never paid. We look forward to helping these workers recover the wages they have already earned.”

The company said in a

statement that it believes its workers were properly paid.

“We believe the lawsuit is without merit,” Epic said in its statement. “We provide good, professional jobs to very talented people, and we value their contribution to improving health care. State and federal law make it clear that employees in computer-related jobs who primarily test software are appropriately classified as salaried professionals. That is precisely the role our quality assurance team performs.”

According to the lawsuit, Nord-

gren and other quality assurance workers regularly worked more than 40 hours a week without overtime compensation.

The lawsuit states that they are not and were not exempt from overtime pay under state and federal law.

The exact number of past and present quality assurance workers is not yet known, the lawsuit states, but is estimated to be more than 1,000.

The lawsuit seeks an order certifying it as a class action, with Nordgren as a representative of the class. It also seeks an order finding that the overtime payment violations were willful, along with a judgment for unpaid back wages for the quality assurance workers, in addition to other damage and attorney fees.

Located in several buildings on a sprawling campus in Verona, Epic employs about 6,800 people.

The company had revenues of $1.5 billion in 2012, according to Forbes. Judy Faulkner, who founded Epic in 1979, has a net worth of about $2.3 billion and was ranked number 243 on Forbes 2013 list of the richest 400 Americans.

Ed Treleven is the courts reporter for the Wisconsin State Journal.

You might also like

(102) comments

trclark81
trclark81

The millenial thing is based on a theory that has proven time and time again to be of little merit. Every time a "generation" (which is a silly and meaningless construct) reaches a certain age, they all determine the younger generation is lazy and entitled. Your parents' generation thought you were lazy too. And I'm sure you'll fight tooth and nail to tell me how you aren't lazy and how you worked hard for what you have, but all of your protests don't change the fact that you generation, too, was considered lazy to your elders. There's pretty firm evidence to show this was a trend as far back as the 1700's. This isn't new. This isn't different. This isn't a larger scale problem. You're just the older generation now. Period.

I'm technically a millenial, though on the line. I've had numerous jobs, often multiple at the same time. I've taken death threats as a security guard, cleaned every imaginable bodily fluid out of hotels and dorm bathrooms, taken abusive calls from customers as tech support and insulting, demeaning comments from employers. I've worked retail, factory, restaurant, manual labor, you name it. I was nearly homeless for a time while I beat the pavement knocking on any and every door to a business I though might hire an IT person with nothing but an education to his name all while working two other non-career oriented jobs to pay rent. I've taken support calls at 2 AM with a baby on my knee, a phone in my ear and a laptop in my lap. I now have a career of 10 years in IT and I'm damn proud of myself for what I have and what I went through to get it.

But I know what EPIC does in terms of hours. I've worked with many, many former EPIC employees and it is not through a lack of work ethic or a sense of entitlement that they wish to be compensated for their work. When I moved here they didn't hire me, but I quickly found other work. And after hearing the stories from current and former EPIC employees, I consider myself lucky to have dodged that bullet. I DO think EPIC is a great company in many respects, but their expectations from their QA and IT folks are most certainly unreasonable.

JB1979
JB1979

Not sure what you mean by IT folks, but in all fairness, I know developers (SD) and tech services (TS) rack up crazy hours.
This case may pertain only to QA, but I can assure you SD and TS are certainly put through the wringer. Granted, they are compensated more than QA and many more require visas (another Epic bargaining chip/stranglehold), but (presumptively) fit the overtime exemption.
I just want to avoid the "woe is me" appearance of QAers when all roles at Epic sacrifice their family/fun/personal/volunteering/etc. time to further the expansion and upkeep of "Judy's dollhouse".

red
red

I get it. These laws protect workers. But I think the real point here is EPIC structures their salaries and bonuses such that they pay a decent amount and it accounts for hours seemingly beyond 40. I suspect if they believed the law for this subset of workers was non-exempt they would pay less to account for it assuming some OT may be necessary. So, this may be a really great exercise, but I don't really think it is going to be the landmark legal case that's going to change the course of history here. If the young man wins, epic adjusts salaries to account for it. He loses, people can blame it on high prices attorneys and we can all move on arguing about state politics. In either case, I bet they have some calculators in the compensation department and a historical view of hours worked and the net result will be a payroll the same as today.

So, everyone bang on the table. Then take a deep breath and move on. Nothing to (really) see here.

Cowboy99540
Cowboy99540

Dear Readers:

I noticed how many of you immediately tried to dismiss this young man's contention that he and many others at Epic Systems weren't fairly compensated for all the extra overtime hours they were required to work at Epic Systems.

Many of you attack the Millennial s, as being unprincipled, dishonest, and lazy gold diggers out to get more than what they actually have coming to them. A lot of you do that while you defend a company that was founded in 1979, by a woman who started in her home, with little money and resources, which has grown into a Fortune 1000 company with revenues in 2012 of 1.5 billion.

Judy Faulkner is a success story, because today she is worth over $2.3 billion and is # 244 on the richest of Americans list.

Ms. Faulkner in fact also employs approximately 6,800 people at her facility in Verona, WI., not in Madison, as one poster inferred. Many work long hard hours for her company and earn between $50,000 to 100,000 + per/ year or more but Judy is worth $2.5 Billion!

I'm a Uw-Madison Grad, that graduated before the PC computer age and who picked up computers through former employment venues over the years. I began using an old 35 MB IBM PC, in 1990, at the old Sears Tele-parts call in Center back then.

With that said, I've worked mainly in the transportation industry most of my adult life where most people in my classification work 70-80+ hours per/week but on average earn $34,000 to $50,000 a year, as a company employee.

They spend a high percentage of their earnings having to live out on the road while being away from home for 7-14 day stints at a time.

Often people that work at my job, in my occupation, which is classified as the most dangerous occupation in America, are regularly subjected to the whim of a dispatcher, fleet manager, or owner (and their grown children), for that driver's longevity and/or level of advancement.

We are often not afforded healthcare, company pensions, or other tangible benefits like are awarded in other industries like software/data-information technology, Insurance, Medical Technology, and the allied health care fields.

Back to Epic, and this class action lawsuit we're discussing. I'm guessing that this owner, Judy Faulkner, has high expectations on the people she hires in and expects them to fully dedicate themselves to her company.

She seems like a lot of wealthy Americans whom seem to have forgotten the days before they became wealthy, and thus like so many Americans like her, she now seem to have turned into a tyrant when she has gotten as high on the tot-tum pole as she has. That's why I suspect that some of the old screw 'em mentality is at work here involving why this guy is currently suing Epic Systems.

I further think, that we all ought to wait and see how things play out plays out in court before jumping to any conclusions. However, as a person that has been in the workforce in Wisconsin, and mainly in this area since 1971, I know a thing or two about big companies like Epic Systems and how they can mistreat their employees at times.

I can relate to this mainly, on bad experiences I've had working for companies over the years. The most recent, was how I was dismissed from my job by an outfit here in Wisconsin that I worked for. They canned me, after working there for just under three months, because they tried to coerce me into transporting an illegal shipment, without a proper bill of lading, across three state lines.

I flat out refused the company's initial order instead asking their dispatcher to email me an authorization order. That's where the company takes full responsibility and orders the driver to transport the load illegally, which was the truth.

In light of that, and other experiences with large employers, I don't really place much trust in wealthy people like Ms. Faulkner who micro-manage companies like Epic Systems. I don't believe that these rich folks have the capacity to do the right thing especially when it involves money and subordinate employees.

Epic has 6,800 employees, at its facility in Verona, WI., and took in $1.5 billion in revenues the year of 2012, and yet can't seem to pay this guy what they owe him?

That is exactly why a growing number of Americans do not trust the rich who seem to develop a God complex, because they were lucky enough to have been born in this country and given the opportunities that a Judy Faulkner has been given to better themselves beyond what an ordinary working person ever dreamed possible.

This is what makes this such a sad chapter for Judy Faulkner and her creation, Epic Systems.

Cowboy

willhogoboom
willhogoboom

The only issue is whether or not the QA employees meet the overtime exemption for a computer related occupation under state and federal laws.

But I will say that Epic is an awesome company. There are no surprises to new employees because Epic's policies are well publicized. As a customer at UW Health, I think the Epic system is awesome.

coco
coco

When you're hired at Epic, they tell you to expect 50 hours per week. I have no problem working hard, but when you're pushing 55-60 hours and you're told it's not enough, it's ENOUGH! Very high burnout rate at Epic and many stick it out so that they can leave, become a consultant, and triple their salary.
I don't know the finer points of the law in this case, but if Implementers are included, please put my name on the list!

MsOwl
MsOwl

I'm exhausted with the typical "Millennials are ungrateful" and "Epic/Judy/corporations are evil" responses in this thread. Whatever your personal biases, the lawsuit is about how Epic QAers are classified according to state labor law. Yes, these employees are salaried, but salaried employees are still due OT in particular circumstances. The ex-employee argues QAers are not in an exempt class. It's not a value judgement. It's the law.

kashka-kat
kashka-kat

Just speculating here - I'm guessing the upshot of this might be more wedges driven between working folks, and attacks on supposed unequal privilege enjoyed by hourly wage workers...the concept of overtime pay btw was one of many things won by unions back in the day that became normal workplace practice.

In other words - salaried workers won't ever get overtime pay, but hourly workers may eventually lose theirs.

tomtom33
tomtom33

While unions helped in the passage of overtime requirements in 1938, the depression was the big motivator. Why have 2 people working 60 hours per week when you can have 3 working 40 hours per week? The unions had little to do with the passage of the FLSA. In fact they opposed the minimum wage contained in the FLSA.

Norwood44
Norwood44

The labor practices of Epic seem to mirror the models of Google, Amazon and Apple. Which is cool. Forty hour work weeks are a not a way to succeed in a career. With remote working and flex time, it's an antiquated notion. As a small business owner, I can say that forty hours a week is very light. The key is passion. If you enjoy what you do, and see the chance to succeed, you don't look at the clock and do your best at work life balance. But there has to be a model that rewards excellence over time. That is why I earlier inquired about Epic stock options etc....folks at google, amazon and apple worked very long hours, but many became millionaires as a result. It is a fair question to ask if there are any millionaires being created at Epic besides Ms. Faulkner.

paulwesterberg
paulwesterberg

Epic does offer stock options, the company is almost entirely employee owned(except for a few initial investors who helped to found the company) so some long term employees a indeed millionaires(on paper anyway).

MsOwl
MsOwl

When employees leave they must sell back their shares. I left after 4 years and don't remember getting more than a few hundred dollars. Certainly less than a grand. That's less than $250/year in stock options--nowhere near Google or Apple money.

number6
number6

I will be called idiotic (and much worse) for this: I find it interesting how we structure our employment world in various sectors. It sounds as though EPIC resembles other industries which have been mentioned -- law, banking, finance, medicine, education, etc. -- in which 'work weeks' are extreme. An alternate approach could possibly have twice as many workers doing half as much work each and still each person would earn a very good living. I fantasize (see, I realize it's la-la land) about this world-wide, work for all, elimination of extremely divergent levels of wealth, or, at least, no one in extreme want of the basics: food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, opportunity, loving relationships. Off topic! Sorry about that.

happydays
happydays

I am sure the unions will be in there very soon. protecting those low wage jobs

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

There are many dedicated Millennial employees in all sorts of jobs, and they work hard and do not sue their employers, but appreciate that they have a job, especially in this economy. Hey Evan, there are many your age who would love to work at Epic...I know quite a few!

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Another example of a spoiled Millennial...suing an ethical company, knowing all along from the start that his work week was not limited to 40 hours! Would he have rather been paid minimum wage per hour? Epic treats its employees fantastically...team leaders who check in with you weekly, healthy and delicious gourmet food choices that surpass most restaurants, decent pay, and a great learning environment. My father was salaried and worked many 12 hour days and I never heard him complain. This UNGRATEFUL Millennial law student is just going after deep pockets. Need I say more? (I bet he used Epic as a highlight for his law school application and his resume.)

wkeboarder21
wkeboarder21

I'll never understand why anyone thinks poorly of Epic.

Let's start with Employees: Out of college you get more opportunity for responsibility than any other company I know. There is no such thing as entry level at Epic when you are talking to hospital CIO's 3 months into your job. Then when you quit Epic, after your 1 year non-compete expires, you can go become a consultant and make up to $200k per year. I have a lot of friends with their MBA that would kill to trade in their degree to work 2 years at Epic.

Now let's talk about the city of Madison: Epic brings roughly $1 billion to the city of Madison every year. This has a great impact on Madison's economy! Think of all the restaurants and local businesses that benefit from this. Think of all the extra flight options in and out of Madison because of Epic.

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Nicely stated!

fakeleft
fakeleft

I can't take your stated facts seriously when you don't even know where Epic is located. The main campus and headquarters are located in Verona, WI not Madison, WI...

Tara Van Rose
Tara Van Rose

wkeboarder21 didn't say Epic was in Madison, he/she said it affects Madison in positive ways, which is completely true as he/she stated.

samlawrence
samlawrence

Wow, we somehow got every labor attorney in the city to comment on this article. I think these articles really exist for the trolls to emerge and trash EPIC in the news. I've worked for a dozen software companies across the country, including the Valley, and this is just part of the industry. All of these whimpering lib arts majors should thank their lucky stars to ever get a job this high paying out of college. Message to everyone: EPIC makes no attempt to claim you'll work 40 hours a week. If you want to work a job 40 hours a week, don't work in software and don't work at EPIC. End of story if you can't handle it. If for some reason they lose or settle this suit, the only outcome wi be that QA salaries are slashed in half in order to level out to where it is now, which is more than what the skill level garners anyway. The entitlement complex of this generation of workers is mind boggling. And shame on everyone trashing a company that provides good high paying jobs. We'd be happy to take them in another state if you don't want em.

ThisIsCrazy
ThisIsCrazy

As a former Wisconsin public school teacher, if this lawsuit succeeds, I'm going to file against my former school district on the same grounds. I currently work at Epic. If you divide my teacher salary by the numbers I worked a year and do the same with my Epic salary it's no contest. I am compensated at a much higher rate at Epic. The ridiculousness of this is that in a time where finding a job is hard, Epic compensates well and people are blessed to have jobs. Lawsuits like this are a drain on our legal system.

ThisIsCrazy
ThisIsCrazy

*number of hours

John Ehrlichman
John Ehrlichman

Not a good comparison. The economy isn't an excuse to screw your employees out of what they legally have coming to them. In a way, you have a point as most of those Epic jobs can be outsourced to India in a nanosecond.

ThisIsCrazy
ThisIsCrazy

I don't think that suing just because the law is in your favor is a right. My point was that Epic employees don't have it so bad. Our society is so quick to decide if something is right or wrong based on if there is law on the books. How about what's ethical? Is it ethical to spend the resources of our courts on a lawsuit because well paid people see an opportunity for more money?

John Ehrlichman
John Ehrlichman

Businesses do it all the time, that's what keeps me employed. I'm not in labor law, I'm in contract law. Look at the civil docket at your local court on any given day. It's businesses suing businesses and businesses suing individuals. You'd be surprised. Oh, I accidentally hit "report" on your comment-sorry. I just got a new iPhone and my clumsy fingers hit that button by accident.

tomtom33
tomtom33

Teachers in public schools are exempt from overtime. Period.

ThisIsCrazy
ThisIsCrazy

You may have missed my sarcasm. My point was that the compensation at Epic is good.

ej355
ej355

LOL!!! Most big time companies work their employees over 40 hrs. New York bankers would laugh at 50 hours. Apple employees would laugh at 50 hours. This guy went to law school, learned a few things and decided to try to have Epic pay for class.

happydays
happydays

did you ever try to become a partner in a law firm working only 40 hours a week? This guy is in for a rude awakening. Maybe he can work for the state

John Ehrlichman
John Ehrlichman

Yes, indeed. But if you look at my billable hours, I get more than compensated for the hours I put in! LOL! He'll learn...

John Ehrlichman
John Ehrlichman

There's nothing wrong with receiving what you have coming to you. Many companies abuse employee classifications to get out of paying overtime just like many companies abuse independent contractor classification to get out of paying payroll taxes. Let an arbitrator decide. I guaranty Epic won't go bankrupt if they lose.

Llamatime
Llamatime

I'm a currently Epic employee. I'm not a lawyer and I don't interpret the law. I can speak to the fact that employees at Epic are constantly given too much work to do, and then expected to do that work in whatever time it takes. However, if it takes less than 45-50 hours per week, you're looked at as "not pulling your weight." So people who are efficient, quick, good, etc, wind up with more and more work. There's never a break in the cycle, so there is a continual level of high stress and a culture that makes people feel like they have to work 50+ hours per week. I've known several people at Epic who have needed to cut back their hours to 40-45--some for medical reasons, some for family reasons, some for other obligations--and Epic won't allow it. They say the expectation is 45-50 hours a week at the bare minimum, no matter what. It's no wonder that people get burnt out and leave. It's not sustainable to ask people to work like that for an extended period of time.

mister jingles
mister jingles

Norwood - epic does offer bonuses and stock options, but it's still a sweatshop. for as, which I was, the expectation was 42 hours during non crunch times and 46 during crunch times...which was less than we were told Judy wanted, that being 46 and 50+, respectively. most developers I knew worked 50+ every week, easily hitting 60 many weeks. implementers averaged 60+ every week. Judy once said she wanted everyone to have 40% more work than they could possibly get done "to give them a sense of urgency". so yeah, sweatshop.

college - they prided themselves on hiring non-computer science majors to do qa...most of us were liberal arts degrees - English majors, history majors , communications majors...their attitude/hiring philosophy was your gpa had to be over a certain point and they'd train you to do qa.

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

I suspect this will not see court.

John_Galt
John_Galt

I suspect you are correct.

willhogoboom
willhogoboom

I think it will go to court in about 5 years.

MrCat
MrCat

Epic must be the nicest sweatshop in the world if people are only working 42 hours a week.

Judy's lawyer
Judy's lawyer

This suit is frivolous. Epic QAers are salaried employees whose primary job function is software testing. Let's review:

Computer Employee Exemption
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17e_computer.htm

To qualify for the computer employee exemption, the following tests must be met:
The employee must be compensated either on a salary or fee basis at a rate not less than $455 per week - check.

The employee’s primary duty must consist of:
...testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes - check.

“Primary duty” means the principal, main, major or most important duty that the employee performs. Determination of an employee’s primary duty must be based on all the facts in a particular case, with the major emphasis on the character of the employee’s job as a whole - check.

QA is definitely tasked with many things unrelated to software testing, but their PRIMARY DUTY remains QA. And they definitely make more than 24k/yr. So, they definitely meet the test. Case closed.

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

If that kid graduated without a specific degree in IT or Comp Sci Judy is in trouble. You can't train someone who has a liberal sciences degree ( i.e. communications, public relations, or music) to run software by rote and then determine if the software functions according to an outline prepared by a person with those higher credentials...and then claim that the "tester" is a computer analyst. Been there and done that and know the law, too counselor. Get your wallet out.

LinkPoster
LinkPoster

What is your basis for this statement: "Unless they are designing software, implementing their own fixes and engineering changes, they are not considered analysts"

The requirements seem to imply that simply testing computer systems would meet the requirement:
The employee’s primary duty must consist of:
...TESTING OR modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes - check.

Judy's lawyer
Judy's lawyer

that was my reasoning. CDT - have you been involved in this sort of suit? I'd love to see some friends make a (deserved) windfall, but I just don't see how it could happen...

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

BTW - never worked for Epic.

Judy's lawyer
Judy's lawyer

well, basically none of them have CS/IT degrees. However, they do go through an extensive amount of training in general software testing, Epic software applications (1m+, in addition to ongoing classes) and have to pass multiple tests. So it's not rote - they prepare testing plans and then run them collaboratively, consulting with programmers and making fixes as needed. How does that fit the established legal model?

BTW, previously worked for Epic

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

Doesn't matter about their training at Epic. Unless they are designing software, implementing their own fixes and engineering changes, they are not considered analysts. You can't have it both ways: Either hire IT professionals and pay the going rate and then expect those people to be exempt from overtime, or hire a comm arts major and train them to do some Epic engineer's tests and you can pony up the OT when you work them over 40. You'll see....

tomtom33
tomtom33

The college degree can be an important factor. Primary duty is another biggie. Under primary duty a person can spend significantly less than 50% of his/her time doing exempt work and still qualify for the exemption.

willhogoboom
willhogoboom

Unless somebody has a detailed job description for the EPIC QA job, it's really hard to know if they meet the computer requirement for exemption. The full computer related requirement is:

The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below;

The employee’s primary duty must consist of:

1) The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
2) The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications;
3) The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or
4) A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of skills.
The computer employee exemption does not include employees engaged in the manufacture or repair of computer hardware and related equipment. Employees whose work is highly dependent upon, or facilitated by, the use of computers and computer software programs (e.g., engineers, drafters and others skilled in computer aided design software), but who are not primarily engaged in computer systems analysis and programming or other similarly skilled computer-related occupations identified in the primary duties test described above, are also not exempt under the computer employee exemption.

LinkPoster
LinkPoster

If anyone cares about what the laws actually are regarding overtime exemption status for people working in 'computer-related' fields, read this:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17e_computer.htm

Lexus Peterson
Lexus Peterson

How many of you know someone that worked at Epic and no longer does and they say they are glad to be out? I bet everyone knows someone. That says a lot.

John_Galt
John_Galt

I do!

BananaSplitz
BananaSplitz

There's a reason IT geeks refer to it as a sausage factory.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Well the industry is already veritable sausage party.

http://www.fastcolabs.com/3008216/tracking/minding-gap-how-your-company-can-woo-female-coders

mister jingles
mister jingles

oshbgosh - I was there for a bit under a decade, had to log my time every day in fifteen minute increments. the best part was when one of my managers asked me if I was excluding any time I spent using the restroom from the time I logged each day.

tomtom33
tomtom33

That was a good question. All of your time including breaks is chargeable.

Norwood44
Norwood44

This is a story Madison media has ignored. The very idea that Judith could be a robber baron who exploits her young employees and gives back little to the community doesn't fit the current narrative. It would be great to know if there are stock options available, as Jobs and Bezos and the Google boys have done to reward employees with millions. Last I heard Epic was still privately held, but if there are bonuses and inventives it would be good to hear about them. The sweat shop reputation is widespread. It would be good to know if it's true or not.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Where are the Solidarity Singers? Where is Nav and Fiction? They constantly claim to be the Champions of Working People. Shouldn't they be warbling at Judith's Epic window? Oh. Wait. She's a Dem so she could never be an exploitive robber baron with 1% wealth the same as the loathed Diane Hendricks. Plus the public unionists think they are the only victims of injustive anywhere in the universe. So never mind.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Correction. Injustice.

snootyelites
snootyelites

EPIC employees are Exempt employees and as such won't win overtime case. However, the overtime case is a legitimate one in the sense that about 95% of its employees complain about Epic exploitation. But these are good graduated students with high debts and are stuck.

Ironic that Obama is sticking healthcare costs on young people and his stooge Judy is exploiting young people with overtime abuses.

tomtom33
tomtom33

Read 29CFRPart 541 before you make blanket statements about who is and who is not exempt. Each employee must meet the requirements set forth in Part 541 in order to be exempt. The call is not always an easy one. That is why we have lawyers and judges.

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

For the first time, I think we agree on something, Epic may well lose this case on the specifics.

B-Man
B-Man

The true irony will be when WMC files an amicus brief in the inevitable lawsuit.

tomtom33
tomtom33

WMC would file nothing in this case.

JB1979
JB1979

"employees in computer-related jobs who primarily test software" Ha! That's what we were hired to do, but between trying to impart common sense on developers, answering constant questions from IS/TS, attending pointless meetings/blamestorming sessions, reviewing release notes, parking cars for UGM, drinking Kool-Aid, mentoring, and attending go-lives, we're lucky to get anything actually tested. There's an SU for that!

pmbalele
pmbalele

I think they are home run with their case. And I am surprised why businesses behave so when their lawyers know the law. You have to pay overtime if you work your staff more than 40 hours per week.

tomtom33
tomtom33

Not if any of your staff is exempt from overtime under Sec 13(a)(1) of the FLSA. Actually there are quite a few exemptions from overtime in both Sec 13(a) and 13(b).

GaryRobbins
GaryRobbins

ginrummy - That is a common misconception of what the term 'salaried' means. It is common, but it is definitely a MISconception.

happydays
happydays

Also, this kid is going to have a hard time finding someone else to employ him. Can't wait to see him try to find a firm to hire him. It will probably be some ambulance chasing firm.

tomtom33
tomtom33

I doubt that this would affect his future employment opportunities.

happydays
happydays

I was salaried and never got overtime and never expected it. I signed a contract stating how much I was going to earn and I got that. I was expected to get my job done, sometimes it took 40hours, sometimes, it to 60 hours. No big deal - a contract is a contract

tomtom33
tomtom33

Any contract that violates the law is null and void. I could make up a contract to pay a laborer $100 a week and work him 60 hours a week?

ginrummy
ginrummy

salaried means you're paid a set amount no matter how many hours you work. You can work 10 hours or 60 hours and you get paid the same amount each week. Salaried employees are exempt from overtime pay. I think with Epic being the size it is they know the laws.

The LAW says everyone gets OT for working over 40 hrs unless you fall into an exempt catagory. These catagories are fairly strict. If you are in Management, you are, but if you do not manage people then it gets tricky. Epic will likely settle rather than risk back pay for all.

Oshbgosh
Oshbgosh

My daughter was offered a job at Epic, but intelligently declined to accept it. At the time she held an undergraduate degree in business and was offered less than what she was making working at a retail store. I think this former employee has gained intelligence by attending law school and may have a very good case. If the Epic QA employees were required to report their hours of work on a form submitted to higher management he has them in a tight spot and can squeeze harder.

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Please tell me what retail store your daughter worked for and what position she was offered at Epic? And your language, sir..."he has them in a tight spot and can squeeze harder." Yikes.


epic
epic

Looks like those lawyer commercials on TV have been riling some folks up. People are well compensated by this company and in return are expected to maintain very high performance. In my prior career as a state manager, I routinely worked more than 40 hours per week and many Saturdays with no extra compensation. I had no complaints.

I don't think Judith will lose any sleep over this.

Oshbgosh
Oshbgosh

Well compensated if you don't need a living wage.

epic
epic

I can't wait for the worker exodus from Epic to the safe environs of Sears, GAP, Taco Bell, and Hardees. Those poor 6,800 wage slaves need relief. The assorted IT specialists, medical doctors, accountants, and human resource folks need to have their chains broken. The agony!

happydays
happydays

you have got to be kidding - OH I Get it - this is a joke. It is a parody of the fast-food workers bitching. Hey Cap Times - Good joke

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Since your daughter declined her job offer at Epic, you should disclose her salary offer. Every Epic employee that I know in a professional capacity makes beyond a living wage. You are out of the loop, sir.

aregross
aregross

This has been coming for a long time... if you haven't worked there you have no idea what those people go through...

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Seriously? Have you worked at Epic and in what capacity? I know a lot of RNs and MDs who have a lot worse working conditions with less pay and more risk.

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Yes, healthy and delicious gourmet food offerings daily, team managers who work with you if you have a life circumstance, learning a ton of information that a college degree cannot afford, yes, you have no idea of what those employees are going through...

Dude999
Dude999

As someone who worked at Epic, I can tell you never have worked there. The food is overrated, team managers don't always work with you with life circumstances, the knowledge is useless outside of Epic, and the hours are ridiculous

coco
coco

Amen!

sparky
sparky

Dude is right.....unfortunately. I do the hiring for another software development company in town. We get applications from Epic developers & QA all the time, but they aren't qualified for the 'mainstream' software positions.

The programming language they use isn't used by anyone else, the methods they use to QA software aren't relevant, and the DB work doesn't translate into openings we have.

It's sad to say, because they are bright people, but we always end up offering the job to a candidate with more relevant experience.

Dtown
Dtown

This is ridiculous. This kid knew he was salaried and now thinks he's entitled to back pay? Haha this is the funniest thing I've seen all week.

Oshbgosh
Oshbgosh

Epic told him he was salaried, but the Epic definition of salaried may not conform with established labor law.

both sides have valid points. If Epic knew they would be paying OT they likely would not have set his "salary" at that level. Then when he got his 1.5 OT pay it would have worked out about the same.

tomtom33
tomtom33

If the employee was not exempt, he is entitled to 2 years of back pay under the FLSA.

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Typical liberal law student...he is owed the world just because he exists.

Waroroses
Waroroses

Epic is a tower of Babel over the top opulent company built on the government largess of going digital. Time for reality here.

MissGratidude
MissGratidude

Okay, if the government mandates Electronic Medical Records, wouldn't it make sense that a company provides them? What world do you live in? Does the government manufacture Air Force planes or Army trucks? Does the government build roads and airports?

MsOwl
MsOwl

Epic started in 1979, long before any government mandates for EMRs. They've been at this game far too long for you to pin Epic's success on the government.

coco
coco

You need to look at the growth of Epic since the term "Meaningful Use" became meaningful.

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

Clearly, these people are trying to game the system. When they say "$30 per hour" they don't mean you are actually an hourly employee....snark off..... LOL......Epic is going to lose this suit.

nufsenuf
nufsenuf

I have repeatedly read the article searching for the wage / salary amounts and none exists in the article as written at this time. Where , what is "$30 per hour" that you refer too? Are you the biased employee??

Judy's lawyer
Judy's lawyer

It's in the FLSA language. However, it says ~$30/hr (if hourly) OR $455/wk (if salaried). So, the latter amount applies in this case.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17e_computer.htm

tomtom33
tomtom33

Thanks for the link. This is a relatively new provision. Of course I haven't kept up with all of the changes in the FLSA since 1983.

nufsenuf
nufsenuf

I say quit your bitching, you had a job and it was here in the USA. Salaried employees do not get overtime. Yet they enjoy many benefits and freedoms that are not available to hourly employees such as predicable income streams, no clocks, freedom of movement and flexible scheduling, no union B.S., and the opportunity to be rewarded for initiative and effort to name a few. It is preferred way for most who are lucky enough to qualify.

tomtom33
tomtom33

Just because you are paid on a salary basis does not mean that you are exempt from overtime. Sec 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act governs salaried employees.

College Didn't Take
College Didn't Take

Another uninformed comment out of you and you'll be condemned to vote Republican....ooops....you already do, it's clear.....

John_Galt
John_Galt

You are funny!
Not relevant, but funny!

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it clean. Exchange ideas and opinions on posted articles. Don't promote products or services, impersonate other site users, register multiple accounts, threaten or harass others, post vulgar, abusive, obscene or sexually oriented language. Don't post content that defames or degrades anyone. Don't repost copyrighted material; link to it. In other words, stick to the topic and play nice. Report abuses by clicking the button. Users who break the rules will be banned from commenting. We no longer issue warnings. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.