Middleton students who don’t want to be in teacher Andrew Harris’ class that begins Monday can transfer to a study hall, a Middleton-Cross Plains School District spokesman said Friday.

Harris, who was fired from Glacier Creek Middle School in 2010 after he and other teachers looked at sexually explicit images at school, is returning to teach seventh-grade science at Kromrey Middle School.

The district will have a second staff member in the classroom with Harris for at least two weeks, spokesman Perry Hibner said Friday. The measures are to ease parents’ concerns, he said.

Students won’t get credit for the study hall. They won’t get a grade for the science class, but that won’t prevent them from being promoted to eighth grade or to high school, Hibner said.

District superintendent Don Johnson had said students would not be allowed to transfer to another block schedule or middle school. Hibner said a study hall, staffed with a substitute teacher, will not significantly alter students’ schedules . Middleton middle schools currently do not offer study halls.

Hibner said the district is hoping parents will feel better after students find Harris is professional in the classroom.

The staff member also will help Harris become acclimated again to the classroom, Hibner said.

Harris’ attorney, William Haus, said Friday the measures could imply Harris is dangerous. He said he suspects the district is not acting in good faith to comply with an arbitrator’s ruling that Harris should be reinstated to a substantially equivalent position.

“What they are really trying to do, they are trying to act like they are complying, but they are really undermining it,” said Haus. “Why is Andy’s class selected as optional and nobody else’s is? There are potentially some good aspects to doing that and potentially some negative aspects to doing that.”

Hibner said the district is trying to address concerns of parents and students, and prevent a lawsuit over a hostile work environment.

Harris returns to work Monday after four years, during which the school board had pursued an appeal of an arbitrator’s 2012 ruling that Harris had been unfairly terminated when compared to punishments handed down to other teachers who also looked at sexually explicit materials or emails while at work or on work computers. The state Supreme Court said last week it would not hear the case, prompting the district to comply with the arbitrator’s ruling to reinstate Harris.

About 20 parents picketed Harris’ first day back at school Friday, when students were not in classes, parent Kira Dott said. She said they plan to also picket Monday.

Harris’ teaching license remains under investigation by the Department of Public Instruction.

Molly Beck covers politics and state government for the Wisconsin State Journal.

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(321) comments

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. You are the picture perfect example for why your cause is failing. Please keep posting.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

As I said below it wouldn't take you an hour to be back with more anti-union rhetoric. Ironically, you're back to your old conservative strategy of posting pithy comments without any context.

I'll take that as a tacit acknowledgement that on the merits your defense of the school board has become a lost cause. Time will tell if the emotional arguments embedded in your porn, teachers and innocent cherubs smokescreen will persuade people to forgive the board for wasting nearly a million dollars.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. You're blind to your own predicament, that of defending a porn watching teacher but somehow thinking you are taking the high ground for arguing for an outcome that is without common reason. Reading the report it is easy to come to the same conclusion as the administration and board...some teachers had a small amounts of content that were borderline but by no means on the scale or explicitness of the Harris stuff. And secondly, Harris showed it to others in a way that engendered a formal complaint . The question that you latched upon was regarding how MUCH would it take to get a teacher fired, not how LITTLE was an offense. The other stuff seemed relatively innocent, as some of the other posters argue. Harris stuff wasn't innocent.. More explicit, more of it, and shown once too often. Rationally, it's all a matter of degree. In this instance I think the determination made by the administration, the school board and their lawyer was fair. And more importantly, I opt with local control rather than the bureacratic and systemic overkill that characterizes any complaint against union personnel. As I've said, this incident and its outcome is the perfect example of why people don't like unions. The tenor of your remarks in this thread serves as another. Your fate is of your own making. Even your own members are abandoning you. And for very good reason. Here's hoping we find a better model to work with teachers and public employees, while escaping voices like yours.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

I don't have members, nor am I a member. Guess that's just another of the falsehoods you like to push.

Also of note is your selective reading of the arbitrator's report, assuming you have actually read it. You conveniently ignore the fact that others had worse and they weren't terminated.

So keep up that smokescreen and your lies and misrepresentations norwood. In the end I believe voters will side with equity and fairness over employers who waste millions of the taxpayers money trying to prove they can act arbitrarily and abuse their discretion.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

I believe there are separate groups of employees here and I believe those separate groups should be treated differently.

I believe there is a clear difference between actively participating and not actively participating; actively participating would be viewing the inappropriate materials multiple times and/or sharing the inappropriate materials via their district accounts and equipment; inactive participation is not actively participating.

Group 1 – Actively participating in actual porn photographs.
All of the employees that were actively participating in the sharing and/or multiple viewings of the actual porn photo(s) should have been fired, no exceptions. The length of time between the bad judgment choices and today is irrelevant; these employees made an individual choice to participate, the choice has consequences associated with it, those consequences should be equal, and the consequences should take place regardless of the timing. The school district should have sent an immediate strong message that the behavior would not be tolerated under any circumstances; they screwed that up the first time around, they can rectify their initial poor judgment by firing this entire group of employees now! It was appropriate to do that initially, it is just as appropriate to do that now.

Group 2 – Actively participating in other inappropriate materials.
All of the employees that were actively participating in the spreading and/or multiple viewings of other inappropriate materials via their district computers should be suspended for 30 days, no exceptions. These individuals made an individual choice to participate in this, the choice has consequences associated with it and those consequences should be equal. The school district should have sent a very strong initial message that the behavior would not be tolerated under any circumstances, suspend them all now. Allow them to take the suspended days in no less than 10 day increments and have the suspensions completed by the end of 2014.

Group 3
I believe that individuals that opened emails or other documents containing inappropriate materials, regardless of what those materials were, but did not share those materials beyond their own district account or view the materials multiple times on district equipment are inactive participants. It is not possible to determine what is inside emails or documents prior to actually opening them; it is very possible for individuals to receive inappropriate materials via their district equipment and not be an active participant. You cannot punish an individual for simply receiving something via their district equipment when they have absolutely no control of what they receive, the individual only has control over what they choose to do with what they receive; I believe these individuals were not in violation of policies, did not do anything inappropriate and nothing whatsoever should be done to them.

In my opinion; this is all about the individuals making a choice to actively participate in inappropriate behavior. Those that chose to actively participate should receive their appropriate punishment and that should be done now, treat them equally as I have outlined above, without exceptions.

Any argument that makes any kind of claim that the teachers must be told that they cannot participate in these inappropriate behaviors at school or on school equipment, is bogus nonsense and an insult to the intelligence of all people! These teachers are supposed to be professionals, everyone should expect appropriate behavior out of them, no exceptions. These teachers chose to actively participate in inappropriate behavior, they did not show good judgment, we expect better behavior from our professional teachers and those that choose otherwise deserve the consequences.

I believe that this is the appropriate solution to the existing problem.
That is my opinion.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

AA:

I agree with you. In this day and age, nobody, especially teachers, should have to be told they could be disciplined, up to and including termination, for viewing inappropriate material on company time or on company equipment off the clock. The arbitrator also agrees with you.

I mean really now. Who among us doesn't know that you aren't supposed to be viewing this kind of crap on the boss' time or on the boss' computers?

So who was making the argument that teachers needed to be told? I think Nav has intimated as much, she can dispute this at her leisure. Interestingly enough, the main parties advancing the argument that a weak acceptable use policy somehow prevented this district from firing anyone other than Harris are.... ta da ... the district and apologists for the district.

That being said. This is water under the bridge. The district shouldn't try and take another bite at the discipline apple. At this point it is about moving forward.

Here are my recommendations for what they are worth.

If you are an employee and your sister sends you emails with embedded jokes, immediately tell her to stop. If she won't, ask your techie to block her. If you open an email that has an embedded joke that even borders on the inappropriate (as determined by the biggest prude you have ever known or the last person you ticked off) delete it immediately and then call your techie and your boss immediately and apologize profusely. Promise that you will do your best to never again open an email with an embedded joke.

Never, ever send a joke, of any kind, on your company email to any other person with a company email address. I don't care what the joke is. Don't do it. Somebody out there will eventually try and use that indiscretion to discredit you in the future.

If you want to cover your XXL buttocks make sure your workplace is as dull and sterile as possible. Recognize that today's innocent and well received joke is tomorrows harassment allegation. Accept the fact that your employer is likely to squash you in order to mitigate the threat of future harassment charges.

If you are an employer, establish an acceptable use policy that is vetted by your lawyer. Personally I would never use any lawyer who has vetted such a policy for the M/CP school district or represented the district in any legal action connected to an AUP. Your policy should indicate that the inappropriate conduct listed in the policy is not all inclusive. You should delineate policies for reporting abuse and for self-reporting any inadvertent... whatever. Establish, in no uncertain terms, that surfing for inappropriate material on company time or company equipment is cause for immediate termination. Establish and enforce progressive discipline procedures and document, document document.

Recognize that if you cut one jerk an honest break, you may well be forced to do the same for a real problem child. Recognize that whatever you do it probably won't be enough.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Your rhetoric befits your cause.
Move along now. You're scaring the kids.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Norwood is the blogging community's resident, anti-union scold. That's why you just gotta love the hypocrisy Norwood traffics in.

Norwood has up and down this thread and related threads trying to steer the conversation and manage the discussion by consistently misrepresenting the situation at hand and misstating the facts of the matter. Post by post Norwood's intellectual dishonesty was exposed; yet Norwood was not chastened. Norwood was compelled by his obsession to try and deflect criticism away from a school board that has wasted nearly a million dollars of taxpayer money. Norwood's mission was so futile and so hypocritical that in the end Norwood was reduced to demanding that liberals try and justify Harris' reinstatement by answering a single question. "How much porn should a middle school teacher be allowed to have on their computers?"

If you have to ask how such a question exposes Norwood's hypocrisy, you haven't been following the case or the discussion.

Liberals and progressives never tried to defend Harris' reinstatement by suggesting teachers could have some permissible amount of porn on their computers. It was NORWOOD, THE DEFENDERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, AND THE SCHOOL BOARD ITSELF WHO HAVE ARGUED THAT TEACHERS CAN HAVE SOME ACCEPTABLE AMOUNT OF PORN ON THEIR COMPUTERS. After all, that is the only way people like Norwood, who don't believe in standards of fairness and equity, could justify the legally impermissible and disparate treatment that Harris received.

Norwood slithered his way into a serious corner on this one. Where Norwood once salivated over the prospects of tarring unions with a smokescreen of porn, teachers and innocent little cherubs, Norwood ended the day tarred by his own smokescreen. This is what happens when someone sets out to defend the indefensible.

But don't cry for Norwood. He has a short memory. He will be back with another anti-union screed in short order, probably within the hour.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

These arguments need to stop. Everyone has said the same things over and over. You guys are not going to change anyones mind, give it up and move on.

Nav
Nav

Norwood44 has tried to make the MOST out of this story in line with his never stopping anti-union tirades, In the end, however, he has changed few minds and, in fact, has been discredited many times.

Norwood44 has a anti-public workers agenda in general, and his anti teacher agenda in particular,.may be due to him having received failing grades in high school. Who knows? Whatever the reason, his inordinate effort to blame the unions for all the evils in the world is very odd, unnatural, and not normal.

That Norwood44 is so obsessed with unions is highly odd given the law that he desperately wanted to see is now the law of Wisconsin. I am referring to Act 10. As a result of this Act, the unions have lost much of their power and are not able to give money to Democratic candidates like they used to be able to. You would THINK that would have elated Norwood44 and have him declare "victory". But the opposite is true.

Norwood44 fears that the unions may make a come back. I hope those fears are realized. But it seems to me that Norwood44 will not rest until the unions are officially banned from the country. Until the he will see a "union thug" everywhere, including under his bed!

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. I have no fears about unions. None.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fiction. We won't convince each other. But I still think you won your case at the expense of your cause. Time will tell. With the AFSCME story today you it seems you are fighting a serious headwind with both members and the public. But hey. Things could change. Middleton will be interesting to watch.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. All of this is about your collective philosophy. The belief that everyone is the same. Such a belief denies the human instinct to excel and compete. To be an individual and not be a faceless member of the group. Your collective philosphy was given a great chance to succeed in both Russia and China. Both economies now see that the collective does not allow for excellence, innovation, and achievement or prosperity, except for the ruling class. That is why your model is so wrong Fart. And why it is justifiably going away. I do think we need reform to close the wealth gap. But history has proven that your collectivist philosophy is not the answer. This case is a sterling example. Your philosophy would have been to punish all the teachers the same, when their offenses were not the same. Such an act would have been unjust to the students, fellow teachers and the community. Your union fought against intelligent thought and community control. That's why you are going away. Unless sanity rules within the union. But there are union leaders making a lot of money with the old model. MTI's president makes 400k a year. Perhaps that explains your angry posts. There is money to be made off the collective. Enjoy your summer at your dacha.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Boy you are slithering to a new low Norwood.

Just how many straw man arguments do you have to build before you admit that your positions on this issue have bitten you in the arse.

I am glad to play my little part in helping you to expose yourself, pun intended.

Remember norwood only you and gk believe there is some acceptable amount of porn that should be allowed on a teacher's computer.

Remember norwood only you and gk believe that employers should be allowed to do what they want when they want to whomever they want without regard to fairness, equity or the rule of law. That's something you can surely be proud of norwood.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Go away now. Good luck with your porn teacher. By the way, your petty and mean-spirited posts help your union cause as much as Harris has. You deserve your fate. You worked hard to earn it.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You spout crap and misinformation over and over again, you construct straw man argument after straw man argument and then you say that I am being petty and mean spirited when I expose your ridiculous arguments. I guess such is the mindset of someone who believe that there is some acceptable amount of porn that a teacher can have on their computer before their employer fires them.

Harris may not have helped the union cause Norwood, but you are the gift that keeps on giving. It won't be tomorrow, but it is only a matter of time before people reject your anti-union animus for what it is, an attack on the right of individuals to band together to prevent employers from abusing their discretion.

Norwood44
Norwood44

The teacher in question had porn on his computer at a middle school stored in the school district server. More porn than any of the other teachers in question. He was also the only teacher to show it to other teachers in his presence. He was reported by a female teacher. At this point let me go to a tactic used so wonderfully by Nav. CAPS for EMPHASIS. So again, how much PORN can a TEACHER have on a computer at a MIDDLE SCHOOL according to the UNION? What is the UNION STANDARD for TEACHER PORN? As much as they care to store? Only a gig? What kinds of PORN are OK according to the UNION and ARBITRATOR ? Naked dwarves (true) but not bondage? Fart... Nav... anyone? Also, how many times must a MALE teacher show PORN to FEMALE TEACHER and be reported before he is fired? FIVE times? TEN times? What is the UNION STANDARD for PORN? This is so helpful to us average folks who are unprotected by a the high standards of the union. It's a wonderful service that you do.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

How many times have you asked this question without telling us what standard you would set norwood?

For the gazillionth time I would set a zero tolerance standard. I would enforce that standard. I wouldn't try and split hairs on it.

The arbitrator indicated that a zero tolerance standard would have been a perfectly acceptable standard for the district to set. But the arbitrator also deferred to the district and accepted the fact that the district had not established a zero tolerance standard. The arbitrator found that the district is free to establish any standard they wanted to as long as they applied that standard consistently. In the end the arbitrator ruled the district had not applied their standards consistently.

So you see Norwood, most of us around here would set a zero tolerance standard. Apparently there are only two kinds of people around here who are trying to argue that there is some acceptable amount of porn that a teacher can have on their school computers, the school board and anti-union scolds like you.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. This is the crux of it. You believe in the collective. That belief means the best teacher in all of Middleton should be paid the same as the worst teacher in the same town with the same years of service. Likewise, you are arguing for collective justice. The belief that no one be allowed to reasonably discriminate between the varying offenses of the teachers in question. By applying your collective justice, you would actually have fired the teachers in question. The collective philosophy makes everyone the same. (Never mind that teachers make discriminationg judgements about students every day. They do not grade all students as a C). To me it was clear from the report that Harris had the most offenses. But you believe in collective justice, which in this case was a poison pill defense. Execute all of them or none. My argument is that such thinking is no thinking at all.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Well well. As I said, Norwood asked a question that norwood doesn't have the stones to answer.

Norwood phrased his question intentionally so he could make it sound as though it's only union advocates who believe there is some acceptable amount of porn that can be on a teacher's computer. In reality Norwood and gk are the only ones on these threads who believe there is some acceptable amount of porn that can be on a teacher's computer.

Now that Norwood has been caught in his own trap, Norwood is falling back on his tired and worn out collectivist nonsense. For the umpteenth time norwood, the arbitrator said the district didn't have to set a zero tolerance standard. The Arbitrator would have allowed tiered standards as long as those standards were applied consistently across the staff.

So why is it that Norwood just can't get it through his thick skull that the district didn't enforce their porn standards uniformly and that's what got them into trouble? I think the answer is clear. Norwood needs a smoke screen. Without it he looks like .....

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

FTR Norwood,

If you were to actually read the arbitrator's ruling you would know that the arbitrator allowed the district to enforce different levels of discipline for different levels of inappropriate behavior.

So once again, your entire anti-union screed is just plain bogus.

But that's ok Norwood. You just keep arguing that there is some acceptable level of porn that a teacher can have on their computer.

Norwood44
Norwood44

correction... you would have fired all the teachers in question.

Nav
Nav

Norwood44,

With ALL that shouting you do on these threads, you must be one angry man!

Norwood44
Norwood44

And you an angry WOMAN. I SENSE that you are VERY angry.

bk
bk

Norwood: "He was reported by a female teacher.... Also, how many times must a MALE teacher show PORN to FEMALE TEACHER and be reported before he is fired?..."


Sexist!

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

”We clearly have different standards of quality. To me someone who looks at porn while at work at least 23 times over several years is either a moron or has an addiction. Either way they are unfit to instruct children.”

I demand better. You protect the mediocre just like your union.

Norwood44 No “reply” link to reply below so I brought you quote up in a new blog.

Based on your principles you are going to have an awful small workforce. Most people understand that in a normal work environment people do dumb things. What happened with Mr. Harris is one of them. Why are you so angry about him not being fired? Are you over run with guilt of some sort that has you on the warpath to get rid of everyone who makes a silly mistake? Or is it due to the fact that it involved looking at a picture of a nude woman? One of the main reasons this country was founded was exactly the stance you are exhibiting in this matter. Puritanical fanaticism can best describe you posturing on this matter.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

I work for a pretty large company that doesn't have particularly strict or "puritanical" policies but I cannot fathom a scenario where anyone would survive doing what Mr. Harris did.

Keep in mind that we cannot know what Harris was caught doing represented the minimum or the maximum of his policy violating behavior.

What Harris did was not a "silly mistake". By any reasonable and realistic standard what he did was simply inappropriate in the workplace and demonstrated appallingly bad judgment. The liability the district could be exposed to alone if Harris later decides to escalate his behavior in the form of harassment or abuse could be devastating.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

I can totally agree with you about Mr. Harris future actions. But at the same time we need to know ALL the facts before we institute our judgement on this matter. I do not feel we have all the facts and based on that plus it appears no children were directly involved we need to let it go. I have grandchildren in two different school systems and I would the first one knocking on the door of a teacher if he or she was shown to have behaved in a manner detrimental to my grandchildren. For that matter any child.

Norwood44
Norwood44

That's not my quote.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Norwood44. Sorry. it was gkmoynihan who I was referring to. I am haveing a problem distinguishing the two of you.

Norwood44
Norwood44

No problem Truth. Moynihan is a good writer. I am flattered by the confusion.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Some comments made over the past hours that need explaining.

Unions protect good teachers as well as bad. Is that something you just discovered? There is a reason why that happens. It is the fault of bad employers. If all employers would treat their employees fairly, there would be no need for unions. But you know as well as I that is not the case. If all employers would be fair and pay wages according to a persons skills and abilities, unions would soon disappear. And if employers would not go on personal vendettas against individual employees we wouldn’t need them. Mr. Harris is a perfect example of why that won’t happen for a long time.

Why did a number of people quit AFSCME? Like most organizations there is always a large number of people who ride other peoples coat tales. Unfortunately for the unions they have that problem. I suspect the people who are so rabid about getting rid of a teacher who was accused of showing ”porn” belong to a religious organization. I would like to know what percentage of your followers are weekly attendees and what percentage donate weekly to their religious organizations? I would bet it isn’t any different then the number of people who bailed out of the union when Walker changed the law.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Could you explain whats in it for the good teachers in the union then?

Couldn't they do better on their own without unprofessional teachers like Mr. Harris making their contract negotiations more difficult?

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

As I said earlier, you lack an understanding of the fundamental, historical foundation of unionism to understand why good teachers joined a union in the first place.

As for why people are leaving public sector unions since ACT 10. The answer is both complicated and easy at the same time. People are leaving for different reasons. Absent some major study all we can do is speculate as to the most prevalent reason. I would argue that people are leaving because post ACT 10 because they believe there isn't much the union can do for them.

Personally I think this will be good for the unions in the long run.

FTR gk. Since Act 10 is the law of the land, you can no longer argue the old paradigm is holding back the wages for good teachers. Right now the only thing holding back teachers wages are school boards and state law. Likewise the only thing stopping a school district from dumping your mythical bad teacher is the school district.

The ball is in your proverbial court. Let's see how well you folks do with it.

bk
bk

That's funny. Mr. Harris was very active in the negotiating process. Do you know anything about that which you choose to comment? (Silly question?)

Let's assume that all 15 teachers who viewed the emails (which I refuse to describe as porn, as nudity does not equal porn and these images were/are attempts at humor NOT sexual arousal). Would it be safe to assume that all 15 were "bad" teachers? Why is it not ok to assume that now? Or is it? Where is the witch hunt for these 15? what are their names? Why did only one person "complain"? Why did only one person get fired? What country do we live in?

WHO THE HELL WAS HARMED or even POTENTIALLY HARMED in this situation? HOW?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

The other characteristic real professionals have that public school teachers do not is competition.

Whether a professional has a sole proprietorship, is part of a partnership or works for an eeevil corporation, every day of their career they are looking over their shoulder in fear of being replaced by someone who is better. This competition drives entire professions to be better. Lawyers, doctors and engineers are better now than they ever have been because of competition and we’ve all benefitted from this.

In contrast, despite there being countless more qualified teachers than Mr. Harris, the policies demanded by his union ensure that his position the MCPASD is secure. While Mr. Harris’ situation is unique the effects of policies demanded by unions like the MEA are not. Since 1970, inflation adjusted public school spending has more than doubled. Over the same period, achievement of students at the end of high school has not improved one bit. See chart: (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SqgYwPKlGCI/AAAAAAAALSA/XJI3BUM5Mn8/s1600-h/cato.jpg).

Eliminating the unions and allowing teachers to be their own agents; to be able to negotiate their own contracts will result in better teachers and better salaries.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

I would like to suggest that you stop drinking kool aid and understand that if Mr. Harris was acting as his own "agent" he would now be out of a job. Don't you understand an individual has no chance against a school board which can spend a million dollars to prove they are not very smart. What part of this don't you understand?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Yes. Mr. Harris would be out of a job and a more qualified teacher would take his place. What part of wanting better teachers that are better paid don't you understand???

If there was greater diversity in the educational system - more charter, voucher and magnet schools - individual teachers would have more pricing power in the market.

That being said, it didn't cost a million dollars to prove that Mr. Harris is an idiot. That was self-evident. The million dollars was needed in the failed attempt to try and get the moron fired.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

How is it that you can be wrong in so many ways on a single thread so many times.

The school district didn't waste a million dollars trying to fire harris. They wasted a million dollars trying to prove they could fire anyone they want for what ever reason they wanted when ever they wanted without regard to fairness, equity or the rule of law.

The law said otherwise. Even with ACT 10 the law would be on Mr. Harris' side.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Except for a few cliches your understanding of how the world works is so overly simplistic it is startling. There is absolutely no evidence that unions held down salaries or negatively impacted teacher quality. Of course I don't expect anything like inconvenient facts to get in your way.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Perhaps you could explain to me why it is then that K-12 education has not improved at all since 1970 despite the massive increases in spending and the massive increase in the number of teachers relative to students (nationally down to 1 for every 15!)...you know because I'm so simple.

Simple me simply thinks if it's good enough for lawyers, doctors and engineers and pretty much every other professional profession competition should also benefit teachers.

Perhaps you could explain to me why this isn't the case? You know help a "simple" guy out?

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Actually gk, there are a ton of studies out there on this issue. First thing you would have to do is break the two issues apart. Why are costs going up and why are test scores remaining flat.

I think there are a variety of answers to both questions. The cost of educational technology is soaring. You and I probably took vocational classes where we used WWII surplus equipment that the school didn't pay a dime for. Today kids need access to CNC's and instead of drafting with t-square and triangles today's kids need Autodesk and Creo. Keyboarding used to be something we did on an early model IBM Selectric and only a handful of kids ever took the course. Today third graders take keyboarding in a full computer lab.

When we were kids we were told to sit there and shut up. Nobody ever heard of the discovery channel. Today's kids can't sit still and need the kind of stimuli we only thought existed on the Jetsons.

When a teacher could tell a kid to sit there and shut up, you could handle classes of 25-30 students. Disruptive students? We didn't have em. They were in special ed classes or they dropped out.

Today those difficult to reach students are in everybody's classroom. They disrupt the process and consume an inordinate amount of resources. And they stay in school and they are tested. Want to know why scores aren't going up? We are educating and testing a broader swath of the population.

But again gk, don't bother to let inconvenient facts get in the way of your simple minded talking points.

Nav
Nav

I find it most ironic that our Republican friends on these boards find it very suitable to act the "protector" of interests of groups they routinely do nothing about.

All of a sudden, Norwood44 is concerned about a teacher viewing something pornographic in a class room OUTSIDE the view of the kids. I don't know this for sure, but I have a feeling those 7th graders have probably seem a lot more pornographic stuff on the internet than what Mr. Harris was viewing. However, I agree that that does not make it right.

IF you are truly concerned about the children and their education, you should be criticizing the Governor for the drastic cuts he has made in education in our state.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

The MCPASD has $12,348/student to work with putting it ahead of all but 46 out of 426 other state districts. Money isn't the problem here. Policies that keep bad teachers in the classroom are.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Ever notice how our resident, anti-union scolds never spell out what constitutes a "bad union contract?" Ever notice how our resident, anti-union scolds have never commented on a union contract they didn't think was bad?

Ever notice how our resident, anti-union scolds consistently imply that workers have accumulated unwarranted, protectionist powers if those workers dare to band together in order to prevent employers from abusing their discretionary powers? Ever notice how our resident, anti-union scolds believe that public sector workers set themselves up as somehow different from private citizens just because public sector workers have the audacity to believe in fairness, equity and the rule of law?

Ever notice how often our resident, anti-union scolds have said that elected school boards should be able to do an investigation and fire a teacher who has a lot of porn on a middle school server? Ever notice how often our resident, anti-union scolds try to remind us that such an investigation shouldn't be considered discriminatory? Ever notice how often our resident, anti-union scolds claim they disagree with the arbitrator's ruling even though the arbitrator's ruling agrees with our resident, anti-union scolds on just about every issue?

Ever notice how our resident, anti-union scolds sidestep the fact that the board chose not to discharge several employees even though the arbitrator found that those employees engaged in substantially the same conduct, if not worse conduct, than Mr. Harris was accused of engaging in?

So just what is it about the arbitrator's ruling that our resident, anti-union scolds find wrong?

Oh that's right. Our resident, anti-union scolds think the decisions of an employer should never be second guessed even if the decisions of the employer can be shown to be arbitrary and capricious to the point of abusing the employer's discretion. Our resident, anti-union scolds don't believe that employers should be held to standards of fairness, equity and the rule of law. Our resident, anti-union scolds believe that employers should be allowed to do what they want when they want to whom they want for any reason of the employer's own choosing.

To be fair, our resident, anti-union scolds and I do agree on a couple of things. I think it is fair to say that we both believe that public and private sector employers should be subject to the same standards of fairness and equity. I think it is fair to say that we both believe that public and private sector employees should be extended the same protections. But these areas of agreement come with some serious caveats.

I believe both public sector and private sector employers should be held to the same standards of equity, fairness and the rule of law. Our resident, anti-union scolds believe neither public sector nor private sector employers should be held to any standards. I believe that public sector and private sector employees should have the same protections against the unfair actions of their employers. Our resident, anti-union scolds don't believe any employee should have any protection against the unfair or inequitable actions of their employers even when the employer's actions violate the rule of law.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Yawn.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

The only reason this is a union issue is because the union prevented the will of the people from being done...assuming the democratically elected MCPASD board reflects the will of the people.

If the people want Harris fired he should be fired. Period.

bk
bk

The union prevented a public lynching.

Well, not exactly, the lynching has happened, is happening, but at least one man is not losing his ability to support himself and to be a positive contributor to society unjustly.


What happens when the people want YOU fired because they misunderstand something YOU do at work? I hope you have somebody to support you if that ever happens. I don't think that you are honest with yourself.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

But aren't there many other, more qualified teachers that would have benefited from Mr. Harris' position? Aren't there many other teachers that need to support themselves by being positive contributors to society? Wouldn't students be better served by having one of these other, non-workplace-porn-viewing teachers?

bk
bk

@gkmoynihan (below)

I actually prefer the writings of your brother Denis Moynihan. He's a brilliant researcher and writer. Thoughtful, honest, provocative, and above all, INFORMED.

Tell me what you know about Andy's qualifications that make another person more qualified than he. I happen to know that he was a very good teacher while at Glacier Creek. He has a few years of experience teaching this very subject successfully. Add to that now, that he has experienced something that no other teacher can lay claim to: this lynching

If the district is smart, they'll see about helping him switch to a sociology or political science class, perhaps in high school. But they have proven that smart they are not.

Nudity does not equal porn. Many of the images in question could have been included in an R rated movie. The stuff was intended to be humorous, not sexually arousing.

Students may very well be better served by a different teacher. They may also very well be more poorly served by a different teacher. There is absolutely no way to answer that question honestly with an affirmative or a negative. There is no real way to measure the success of a teacher as they teach concepts and life lessons that can take years to sink in.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Now isn't that funny. When the board wants to fire someone the anti-union scolds believe the board represents the will of the people. When the boards wants to give everyone a raise, the anti-union scolds argue that the board doesn't represent the will of the people.

More evidence of what the arbitrator referred to as "wanting to have it both ways." This is why it isn't possible to have reasonable discussions with our resident anti-union scolds.

Nav
Nav

Does EVERONE see that the m0ost active participant on this thread has been Norwood44? Is that a coincident? Not at all.

Norwood 44's anti union tirades go back a long time as regular readers on here know. he is ALWAYS trying to drive a wedge between public employees (such as public school teachers and the public). He finds one example of a bad apple and tries to make everyone think it is the norm.

Our state has major problems it has to deal with other than what ONE teacher did in some school. This is not an election issue.

Election issues are:

Failure of Governor Walker to create the 250,000 jobs he promised

The Governor's rest of the record which is also pathetic.

WHEN people like Norwood44 shift all of their energies into topics other than those that are the MOST important to people (bread and butter issues), it shows that they do not want to discuss these issues. Why? because their leader, Governor Walker, has done precious LITTLE for the ordinary people of WI. Focusing on other issues is how they try to distract people from the REAL issues.

Norwood44 exposes himself every time he writ4es a anti WORKER post, which is often.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Nav,

Can you explain why any parent should be pro-union after it was the policy demands of the MEA that kept this "bad apple" in with their children?

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. How much porn do you think a teacher should be able to download or watch in a middle school? I am very interested in your opinion on this matter. Likewise Fart. Do you think there should be any guidelines regarding porn watching by teachers?

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

Actually I believe that Fartinthewind has shared his opinion on that; if I remember correctly he thinks a bit like I do on this, they should have all been fired up front, the problem for him is the unequal treatment in the punishments, which I completely agree with. I'm sure Fartinthewind will correct me if I misunderstood.

Nav, on the other hand, "appears" to be trying to protect the teachers right to view "porn" at school as long as it is not shown to the students. I hope i'm wrong about that but it is what it appears.

Nav
Nav

AllAmerican11B,

I am not protecting a teacher's right to view porn in school, in the class or office. That is the LAST place where a teacher should be viewing such material.

Having said that, if one teacher was stupid enough to do this, then his employers should do anything they can under whatever collective bargaining agreement there is. Under the CBA they had, presumably, any termination of an employee was to be taken to arbitration, which they did. The Arbitrator made a decision, and the District appealed and lost. They did everything they were expected to do under the rules. I am fine with the decision that was made and I trust the Arbitrator looked at a lot of facts to make that decision.

Now, for those of you who all of a sudden have come to be concerned about kids in school, it is a good thing that Mr. Harris will never do this again. If he does, he should be terminated...period.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You have paraphrased me correctly. If the district had fired all of them up front, or at least fired the others who had actually searched out porn they wouldn't be in this mess right now. If they had done either of these two things there wouldn't have been a problem with disparate treatment.

Nav
Nav

Norood44,

I don't think any teacher, or anyone at work, should be viewing porn during company time. Does it happen though? yes. Is it the END of the world? No!

This is why all companies and organizations should have a policy on what is and is not permissible at their place.

This matter has little to do with the unions. It has to do with the law. The matter went to arbitration and the independent arbitrator ruled that the District, wrongly, terminated Mr. Harris. And they gave their reasons.

The District appealed the matter to higher courts. The Supreme Court refused to listen to the case, in effect, letting the arbitrator's decision stand. The law took its course. A decision was made. The district has decided to abide by it.

I think you know that Mr. Harris will not do anything like this again, and if he does, she SHOULD be fired. A mistake was made at that school, and the school will remedy that situation. As far as I am concerned, this is the end of the matter. As I said, your trying to focus on this case for your own benefit is pathetic. Let the issue rest now.

The state of Wisconsin has very serious issues. There is a Gubernatorial election coming later this year. I want to talk about the candidates, and their records. I think this is what the majority of the readers want to do also. STOP brining in unions when they are NO LONGER an issue! On the other had, maybe that's the best you can do?

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

Nav,
"This is why all companies and organizations should have a policy on what is and is not permissible at their place."

Your logic in this matter is badly flawed!!

Companies, organizations and school districts simply cannot be expected to list everything that is not permissible at their place of business or on their computer equipment; the task is impossible to complete and therefore not logical to require!!! Companies, organizations and school districts must expect a level of professional intelligence as to what is and is not appropriate behavior at their place of business. Let's be perfectly honest here Nav; using a lame "excuse" that a school district must tell school employees that they shouldn't be viewing pron at school on school equipment regardless of the lack of student's presence is like having to be required to tell a surgeon that they cannot take a dump in a operating room when patients are not there.

Your logic is so badly flawed that it is an insult to all intelligent persons.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

to AA below and to Nav

Employers are required to be as specific as possible. Ironically in this case the arbitrator ruled that even though the District's acceptable use policies were vague, poorly publicized and roundly ignored by both the staff and the administration common sense dictated that the District could still discipline, up to and including discharge, employees who were viewing inappropriate materials on school time or on school equipment off the clock.

End of story.

As for all the nonsense some posters keep bringing up about this male teacher showing the inappropriate material to a female? That issue too was investigated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator found that any harassment based argument could not be sustained. The woman came back to view the material of her own free will and she had engaged in similar ribald conduct with her team members in the past. Apparently the female staffer never bothered to say during the investigation that she was offended by the material. The concerns she raised weren't about harassment they were about appropriate conduct and the risk a student might see it (also discounted by the arbitrator).

Just saying.

sarge
sarge

Hum...since the teachers have home access to their work emails why do you think any of this happened at work?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Because he showed some of his porn to a co-worker at work. That how this whole fiasco got started sarge.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Just how many times do you have to be told before it sinks in Norwood. The arbitrator ruled that the district's policies had nothing to do with this.

I guess we'll just have to accept that this whole line of reasoning that you are fixated on is just another part of the smoke screen you are putting up to cover for the incompetence of the administration and the board.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. How would you characterize the people who left AFSCME when they were allowed the freedom? Could you describe your feelings about them? I would be interested in your "sense" of these people. What do you think of them? Are the haters? Traitors?

bk
bk

Freeloaders?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

FITW,

Teachers are not true professionals because the actual value they create through their work has very little to do with what they are paid. Historically their compensation has been determined by one size fits all contracts negotiated by third parties which do more to protect bad teachers like Harris than reward the good ones.

If teachers were true professionals:
-they would abandon the safety (and stultifying mediocrity) of the herd and let their talent speak for itself like other professions we consider to be professionals such as lawyers, doctors and engineers.

-they would welcome the creation of new types of schools (voucher, charter, magnet, whatever) knowing that greater variety creates more opportunity to specialize and distinguish themselves from the rest of the market.

-they would demand greater rigor in education programs. The myopic obsession on class sizes has created far too many mediocre teachers. It is far better to have a talented, well paid teacher with 25 students than a poorly paid mediocre teacher with 15.

I think this is a thoughtful critique of the existing educational system. Can we have a thoughtful conversation here without you resorting to invective?

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Major flaw in your comment. For them to abandon the "safety" of the herd would put them at risk with narrow minded thinkers as yourself. You would love all teachers to speak and believe exactly exactly as you. Now there is a real danger.....no thank you!

Norwood44
Norwood44

truthz. I don't think Moynihan's thinking is narrow minded at all. Unions protect underperformers. It's common knowledge.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

If "narrow thinkers" like me are such a pervasive risk than what keeps lawyers, doctors and engineers from the bread lines?

If you acknowledge that there are good teachers and bad teachers than why are you against rewarding the former and encouraging the latter to pursue employment elsewhere?

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Gotta love it GK.

You call for thoughtful discussion but you begin with typical conservative misrepresentations. In fact your entire premise is based on a factually incorrect understanding of history.

You claim that teachers aren't professionals because their compensation has historically been determined by one size fits all contracts negotiated by third parties. That is a bald faced misrepresentation if not a bald faced lie.

Unionized teachers are a relatively new phenomena. Prior to 1959 there was no such thing as public sector bargaining over teacher contracts in Wisconsin. It wasn't until 1964 that Wisconsin had it's first certified teachers union. It wasn't until 1971 that state law required school districts to negotiate with teachers.

So your entire argument that teachers aren't professionals because they sought the safety of unions is as bogus as the notion that teachers would be better paid if they had never unionized.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

If 40-50 years isn't a sufficient amount of time to use the word "historically" I'm truly sorry FITW.

I'm interested in hearing why you think think my assertion union contracts teachers in each district were subject to are completely uniform is a "bald faced lie" (since 1971 of course). Isn't uniformity the entire basis for your defense of the handling of Mr. Harris? That the contractual regime in place when Mr. Harris committed his infractions rightfully prevented him from being treated differently than the other porn viewing teachers?

Are you suggesting that the teaching profession inherently lacks value and that the only way to ensure that teachers receive their current meager compensation is by bundling educators together wholesale?

If so, why does the teaching profession run contrary to every other profession that values differentiation and specialization?

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Referring to the last 40-50 years as historic allows you to completely ignore how teachers fared in the good old days before collective bargaining back when teachers "free operators."

Take a look at that history GK and tell me how on earth you come to the overly simplistic notion that teachers would fare better without collective bargaining.

Hell, you don't even have to go back that far. Just take a look at states that don't permit teachers to collectively bargain. Tell me how much more money those teachers are making. Tell me how much better their students are performing. What you will discover is that nothing supports your positions.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

FITW continues to confuse the correct outcome of the previous union contractual regime and the non-moron/pervert outcome most people would find desirable. That a very pro-union decision was arrived at through a very pro-union contract by a pro-union arbitrator doesn’t make the presence of this unfit teacher any more acceptable.

No one is arguing that the administration and school board didn’t have any choice but to allow the moron/pervert to again help shape young minds. They did the best they could to undo their previous mistakes. We all understand how we got here. We simply need to change the process so that we (taxpayers) no longer have to pay for teachers we don’t want around our children.

This will involve two things:
1.) Get the MEA out of our schools. They are the party the MCPASD entered into the contract with that ultimately prevented the desired dismissal of the moron/pervert.
2.) Hold the administration and school board who continue to enter into contracts with the MEA accountable for this mess. Anyone who even thinks about another MEA negotiated contract should get the boot.

The bottom-line is that taxpayers in MCPASD pay very dearly for the services they receive from MCPASD ($12,348/student, 47th/426 districts). We clearly can afford better than Mr. Harris. We need to be able to demand better. We need a policy that actually allows us to reward and retain the many good teachers we have and dismiss those that are not.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

At best one can say you are a union hater! At the least one can say is you don't take time to look at the various bits of information that have been introduced through these blogs. And if half of what I read is true, plus what information I have received from people related to this situation, gkmoynihan is only interested in denigrating unions and there members. If you would review all what is available, it is quite clear that the school board was on a witch hunt. And the spark they needed to start was the female teacher who had her own ax to grind with the subject, Mr. Harris. I hope all the structurally sound Republicans will forgive me for saying that gkmoynihan is a good example of what is wrong with the poarty-of-no.....hateful, sanctimonious, hypocritical, revenge-full and narrow minded to name a few of the negative attributes they exhibit.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Truthzeeker,

As a parent I would naturally be against any institution who’s interest’s I perceive as being counter to the well-being of my children. If I’m mistaken please explain to me how the policies the MEA continues to advocate for that resulted in the continued employment of Mr. Harris benefits my children.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker


Again it seems that you are cherry picking out those bits of information that will fit your beliefs. And it also appears that you don’t care if a personal mistake will be used to bludgeon a person who has been a good teacher. Had students been involved in this I can understand your feelings. But it still doesn’t change what happened. Several teachers were looking at a nude picture and when they were approached by the victim who asked to see what they were enjoying she then reacted in a most un-adult manner. She had an ax to grind and this was her opportunity to do just that in conjunction with a revengeful school board.
If you feel that this affected your children, then maybe you need to reexamine you views on life and realities of living here.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Truth. I'll ask again. How much porn should a teacher be able to download and watch on a district computer in a school environment? What constitutes too much porn in this situation?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

truthzeeker,

We clearly have different standards of quality. To me someone who looks at porn while at work at least 23 times over several years is either a moron or has an addiction. Either way they are unfit to instruct children.

I demand better. You protect the mediocre just like your union.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Truthz. To disagree with someone or a policy is not hateful. It is a philosophical disagreement. It is immature to whine "You hate me and all my friends!" There are a lot of things wrong with unions. Their decline is testimony to their flaws. AFSCME's membership declined by 40% when people were given the freedom to not belong. That isn't entirely the fault of others. AFSCME has to answer some tough questions about it's own organization, polices and practices. One thing most adults understand is that you can't go through life screaming that it's someone else's fault. But so many of the union posters on this board never acknowledge a single problem with their organizations. It's transparent lobbying, or immaturity, or both.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker


Accepting the fact that unions are not perfect, are you willing to accept the fact that there may be other organizations that also are not perfect? The unions, in principle, are an organization designed to protect their members from the numerous forces out there that don’t always apply their principles in a good manor. One could start with the Republican party and move right into ALEC. Both are out to destroy unions as we know them today.

Can a union be too strong? Yes they can. While a union represents large groups of working people, pacts and lobbying groups represent a small majority of people. That by itself makes unions more important as they are needed to protect the working people. All pacts seem to protect are special interest groups of very rich people. Most of the front groups look like they carry the flag for certain types of individuals but in reality they tend to be funded by a few billionaires for their own greedy purposes.

So to denounce unions and look the other way at the United Citizens spawned pacts just borders on hypocrisy. One can deduce that you hate unions but love one of the worst Supreme Courts decisions ever.
Sad!

Norwood44
Norwood44

Truth. I didn't denounce unions. I denounce bad contracts that are protectionist at the expense of citizens and good government.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

The school administrators and the school board screwed the pooch on this one.

Now that Harris has been reinstated; the only equal solution that also includes the appropriate punishment for the individuals involved is to fire them all, right now! It is equal and it is appropriate for the offense.

The people in the district need to vote the incompetent board members that agreed to this nonsense out of office and call for the termination of the administrators that agreed with the course of action.

Nav
Nav

The people of Middleton do not need others telling them what type of a Board THEY want. I trust in their good judgment.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

Another blind assumption from Nav? You, Mr. Genius, have absolutely no idea where I live in the Madison area.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

I think Nav is Mr. Harris.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav is a perfect example of the kind of public worker we have in Wisconsin.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. No you don't trust the people of Middleton and their elected board. They elected THIS board. And your union made them pay for trying to fire a teacher looking at porn in a middle school. Quite a high standard of employee performance your union has. I am sure you are quite proud.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Let's recap.

The anti-union crowd has serially misrepresented the situation here. They want us to focus on porn and the imminent danger it allegedly represents to students so we won't focus on how the school district managed to waste nearly one million dollars of the tax payers money.

If you listen to the anti-union chorus you would think the board blew a million dollars taking a principled stand against the demon pornography. Such arguments are nothing more than insincere rationalizations that have been thoroughly rebuked by the arbitrator, the district court and the appeals court. The supreme court found the arguments of the anti-union chorus so incredulous they wouldn't even entertain the them.

The school board didn't waste a million dollars trying to protect children from some porn addled teacher. The school board wasted a million dollars trying to prove that employers have the right to do what they want when they want to whom they want without regard to fairness, equity, or legal standards. The anti-union chorus on these threads didn't just support the board's position on this issue. The anti-union chorus pushed, prodded and publicly demanded that the board pony up the resources necessary vindicate an employer's right to treat employees arbitrarily and capriciously.

The anti-union chorus has acknowledged that the district faced an uphill battle, but the chorus loved the circumstances of this case. The chorus salivated over the smoke screen they could create with porn and teachers and little cherubs. The chorus knew no one would support a teacher's right to view porn on the job. And no one did. Not even the arbitrator.

Unfortunately for the anti-union chorus, everyone with two neurons to rub together understood that this case wasn't about porn. Everyone with two neurons to rub together knew that this case was about the responsibility of employers to enforce discipline fairly and equitably according to the rule of law. When the smoke screen of porn, teachers and cherubs had cleared the anti-union chorus had their goose cooked to the tune of $1 million.

Of course we shouldn't expect the anti-union chorus to take responsibility for their role in all this. Heck, they're still hiding behind their smoke screen of porn, teachers and cherubs. They go to great lengths to hide the fact that they want to create a world where employees are prohibited from working together to prevent employers from abusing employees how ever they want and when ever they want without regard to fairness, equity or the rule of law.

repubsaresheep
repubsaresheep

Fart - Well said. I agree with you 100 percent. I find it comical that these helicopter parents are picketing, refusing to accept the court's decision, misrepresenting the facts, and making it all about the safety of their precious innocent babies instead of the complete incompetence by the district and board in handling what was, and is, an employment policy issue. This is the classic 'nothing to see here...look at the shiny object over there...' ruse by the district. Don't shine the light on us kinda thing by the district. No kids were in any danger by this situation, yet the district and these posters frame it that way.

With the rapid personal attacks I've read here about Mr. Harris, you'd think he was a child predator! 'Not fit to be around kids....' 'my kid will never be in his classroom..' type of comments.

I dare ask these parents to look in the mirror and ask if they have that same rabid approach to all adults that interact with their kids. What about babysitters? What about grandparents? Their friends' parents? The librarian? An athletic coach? Do you truly believe all these people, that have positions of authority and influence over their kids, never ever looked at naked pictures or adult jokes? Or forwarded these type of emails to others? Pretty ridiculous premise, right? Well, that's the standard some want as displayed by their comments and actions.

But it never ceases to amaze me the intellectual inconsistency and hypocrisy displayed by people. I could respect their point of view better if they were consistent with this.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

How is it hypocritical to not want your kids to have a teacher too stupid to not look at porn 23 times while at work? Seems pretty simple to me.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Repups...so if a babysitter is in your house while you are gone watching your kids and that person, a guy, is downloading porn onto your home computer, you're cool with that? Right? 30-40 images and film clips. Of dwarves having sex...women spread naked across a car labeled "windshield wipers". That's all good with you?

repubsaresheep
repubsaresheep

Norwood - Apples and oranges logic. The teacher didn't open the emails in the presence of kids, as in your example with the babysitter. So that analogy doesn't work. Regarding your 'home computer' thought: What difference would it make if a babysitter, grandparent, etc. viewed 'porn' on my home computer or on an iPad on the couch? The fact that you mention the home computer in the example proves my point that this is a workplace HR policy issue (not viewing porn on work property). So thank you for agreeing with me.

My larger point in all of this is carrying the 'unfit to teach' argument that is so pervasive in these comments to the absurd. Babysitters, coaches, grandparents, etc. If it really was about the kids, these posters would have to carry that same standard to all responsible for their kids. But they don't. So it comes down to a workplace issue involving adults, not students.

Norwood44
Norwood44

repub. the content resided on the district server. so you're fine with a sitter downloading porn to your family computer while sitting your kids? I understand you and we disagree on the nature of that act. personally, i think downloading and storing porn on a middle school server is wrong. It was certainly against policy at the school. so i am wondering...you think teachers should be free to watch porn at work any time they like just so kids don't see it? Is that your position?

repubsaresheep
repubsaresheep

Norwood - It seems your argument is morphing to being about the district server, which is my whole point. A policy issue, not a 'Oh my god, the kids!!' issue. It appears you agree with me on that.

You do a great job of creating straw men to easily knock down. As in 'you think should be free to watch porn at work anytime they like....' thing. That's not what I said or implied at all. But to that point, if he had those emails on his personal iPad in the teachers lounge, where would your outrage be? Inappropriate at work? Correct. Which is what this is really about. And the district handled others that did the same thing very differently. Which is why they lost in arbitration. No consistency. They didn't follow the law.

Back to the topic being about inappropriate behavior amongst co-workers. The outrage from the masses is about the naughty emails and the horrible man he must be. My entire point is about the lack of moral consistency from the posters wanting him fired. You seem to want to argue straw man points with non-sequitor examples that deflects from the real issue. Maybe that's your goal.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Nuff said!!!!!

Norwood44
Norwood44

I am not anti-union. I oppose bad union contracts. This is a great example why I oppose the current contracts and their accumulated protectionist power. It reveals public workers to be a protected class, different from regular citizens. An electe school board should be able to do an investigation and fire a teacher who has a lot of porn on a middle school server. It's common sense, not discriminatory. This is a person working in a middle school, not an auto body shop. It was a violation of policy. I disagree with Fart and the arbitrator's ruling. Fart repeats the mantra of anti-union. Incidents like this are exactly why many people are anti-union. Teachers should have a standard that is higher than this. As I have said before, it is my take that you won an arbitration but lost in the court of public opinion. A loss you can't afford these days.

Mister_i
Mister_i

Sorry. I was referring to Nav.

Mister_i
Mister_i

It appears to me that lives in a dream world. Sad.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

When is everyone going to fully understand that Fartinthewind is a "special" blogger in these threads that can personally insult anyone that disagrees with him with complete impunity. He is a serial personal insulter that is allowed to do whatever he wants; he has a purpose, and he has an outlet that supports his bad attitude.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. Every time you post, a new Republican gets their wings.

Nav
Nav

If saying that makes you feel less secured than you really are, more power to you!

Norwood44
Norwood44

Um...that post makes no sense.

bk
bk

If that means what I think it does... keep posting Nav. Nobody gets their wings while they are still alive!

SpectreChief
SpectreChief

I had Mr.Harris as a teacher 15 or so years ago. Great teacher, had one of those classes you looked forward to. Most students who have had him, would agree. That being said I do believe all the teachers involved should of lost their jobs. What people should be mad about is that the district gave suspensions to some of the worst offender's, while waging a $1,000,000 war, trying to protect the good ol boy program.

The Middleton school district wasted a mill, ignored complaints about two abusive hockey coach's and waited 7 years after the first smart phones became popular, to ban their use during tests. They can't stop the black mold in kromery middle school but they could email all district parents telling us how noble the cause is they are wasting our money on. People protesting out side the school are pretty foolish in my opinion. they should be protesting the irresponsible actions of the district for allowing the worst offender's back into the classroom in the first place.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Thanks for this perspective. I agree with you. At some point this school board became more interested in placating the administration/teachers rather than concerning themselves with the ultimate well-being of the students.

sarge
sarge

Wow...

Nav
Nav

In this story, the law won and justice prevailed. Mr. Harris was fired illegally, the District has to hire him back, and he will not do another foolish thing like this again.

We cannot blame the union for anything in this case, as even the Supreme Court refused to accept the case knowing that the District would then have to abide by the lower decision. The union helped Mr. Harris pursue his legal rights given to him by the Constitution. This is reason for workers to join or rejoin unions.

It is time to move to another story now, like discussing Governor Walker's failed policies in the state and how he has angered many Wisconsinites. We cannot take the November election lightly and have to go vote in November.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

As far as I can tell no kid has ever died because his/her teacher looked at porn. So if your a parent, be much more afraid of other kids that have parents that own automatic weapons.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Thank you for further proving my point about the lack of self respect public union workers have spooky.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

I'm not a public worker and don't belong to a union, but your witch hunt is pathetic.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Future WEA add:

“We may be the dumbest college students.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/heres-the-nations-easiest-college-major/

We may lie to get out of work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFbMDp5Pg8&feature=player_embedded#at=47

We may look at porn while at work.

But you should thank us because your children haven’t died while under our supervision…yet.”

Comment deleted.
gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Excellent. You should forward this to Mr. Harris...and the employees of MEA.

Norwood44
Norwood44

THAT is funny.

aspyder
aspyder

spooky says: " ... parents that own automatic weapons"

What parents own automatic weapons spooky?
What kid where took an automatic weapon to school?
What (civilian) crime has been committed with an automatic weapon?

This is just one more shining example of how the left and anti-gunners get it wrong. It has to be deliberate it's done so often by people that should know better. You guys claim to be the educated, the informed don't embarrass yourself making those kind of statements.

AdiosScott
AdiosScott

Pretty lame accusation and painting with a broad brush over a word in a comment that probably was an innocent omission of the prefix semi.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart serves as a perfect example of someone who lives in a union world that is very different from the world the other 85% of us live in. The fact that Fart is defending Harris, knowing what he had was in his middle school computer, and insulting everyone while he defends the teacher in question, is a perfect example of the divide our state is experiencing. Fart lives in a world with standards that are alien to me.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Personally I appreciate comments by union flacks like FITW because they reveal the true nature of those who threw that prolonged tantrum around the capitol in 2011. The bizarre sheltered world they experienced their careers in thanks to their public unions created this subculture of entitlement that supersedes the standard baseline morality the rest of us take for granted in our daily lives. Right and wrong don’t matter to many public union members if one their fellow member’s rice bowls get disturbed. We must all gratefully and silently accept their privileges and benefits are sacrosanct.

This is what I was trying to demonstrate below with my imperfect loan officer analogy. Conduct we’d consider absolutely abhorrent in our respective fields is dismissed with a shrug by people like FITW. Where is his self-respect?

Nav
Nav

Norwood44,

Whether it is me, Fact or Fiction, Fart or anyone else who disagrees with how YOU look at the world, the gentle readers have noticed how you are quick to lob personal insults at them.

I can understand your frustration that you are unable to win any arguments on here, but have you no self respect? Must you always try to get the last word? Can you ever stop driving a wedge between the public and the employees that sere it (public employees)?

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Have you read any of FITW's comments or your own? They are little more than personal attacks.

People in glass houses...

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Hey gk aren't you the same person who said teachers weren't professionals and that the mediocre of the world should unite. Wow. That's substance.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Here is a quick summary of FITW’s tantrum just on this thread.

“Swarley you boob.”

“How many times do you bozos have to be told.”

“So are you trying to validate Mr Smith's ignorance Norwood. Par for your course.”

“Read it at your leisure, but please do so before posting anymore nonsense.”

“You just can't help but post factually incorrect, anti-union drivel can you norwood.”

“More deflections and misstatements from our resident anti-union activist and demagogue Norwood.”

“You need to take your blinders off and realize that taking control does not mean disparate treatment.”

“Your ignorance of reality is astounding GK.”

“Just more and more drivel from you gk.”

“You would miss the forest for the trees and the broadside of a barn Norwood. Nice straw man arguments though.”

“You are being unrealistic Robe. People like norwood believe that it was fair to single out Harris. They aren't about to let inconvenient facts get in their way.”

“The taxpayers are on the hook because the district and fools like you believe the district should have been allowed to act contrary to the law.”

“So yes Norwood, I'll stand tall while you continue to slither.”

Robe13
Robe13

Quite the tantrum

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Robe13,

Yes I know I should count my blessings. I know a real progressive tantrum would involve death threats, bucket banging and the use of my yard for both a campground and toilet.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

No tantrum gk. It ain't pretty but I'm not about to let you folks serially misrepresent reality without calling you bozos on the carpet for doing so.

So yes GK, your ignorance of reality is astounding. The drivel you and norwood keep posting does seem to know no end. Yes GK you and norwood should have informed yourselves before posting your nonsense and yes GK it is unrealistic for Robe to think you anti-union conservatives would allow inconvenient facts to get in the way of your anti-union rants.

And yes GK, I will continue to stand tall as you and norwood continue to slither.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. You are angry and feel entitled. Not a good mix. And frankly, I don't think you sound very smart at all. Your posts are arrogant, intolerant and fail to win any members to your cause. Any sane person reading your posts on this thread would understand quickly why unions are failing. You never speak of any obligation to those you serve, in this case children in a middle school. All you speak of protectionist process and immature self-interest. If we view you, Nav and Fiction as the personification public unions, citizens richly deserve the measures in ACT 10. I feel for the parents in Middleton.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

When is everyone going to fully understand that Fartinthewind is a "special" blogger in these threads that can personally insult anyone that disagrees with him complete impunity. He is a serial personal insulter that is allowed to do whatever he want; he has a purpose, and he has an outlet that supports his bad attitude.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

44,

Quit living in a world of no control and low wages. You don't have to be in a race to the bottom, you can do something about it. The only way to stand up to the billionaires is to come together, there's strength in numbers.

If having control is alien to you, you need a new life. For Gods sake, stop brown nosing billionaires that laugh at you for defending them.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Mediocre of the world unite!

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

gk, In the US, 80% of the people share 8 cents out of every dollar and I% takes 42 cents. If all this math hurts your head, you should have went to a public school.

Norwood44
Norwood44

spooky. "You should have went to a public school." Perfect.

Norwood44
Norwood44

spooky. You don't make very much sense. Your life may have no control, which is probably why you have low wages. I don't know any billionaires. Not one. My perspective is that of a person who doesn't work for the government, but rather competes in the real world with the 90 per cent of Americans. We have a right to hold forth on the government class.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Spooky. Maybe you should spend less time envying the wealth of others and create some for yourself.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Oh, and this should surprise no one…but the arbitrator that spared the moron/pervert’s job:
http://host.madison.com/news/local/education/local_schools/arbitrator-middleton-cross-plains-must-reinstate-teacher-who-viewed-porn/article_a47a943e-6309-11e1-be00-001871e3ce6c.html

Donated $500 to Tom Barrett when he first lost to Walker.
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor.phtml?d=1776108891
Donated $1000 to Tom Barrett for the recall election.
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor.phtml?d=2329975549

sarge
sarge

How much did you give to our govenor hk ?

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

Now that Harris has been reinstated it's time to do what should have been done in the first place; fire them all.

Throw out the trash.

There, problem solved for all sides.

Nav
Nav

Good luck with that AllAmefrican11B. Things don't work that way in the real world.

The thing for the Board to do is to write a very specific policy about this topic and warn everyone of consequences if they violate the policy. That policies MUST be applied equally and consistently, not selectively.

I am not a lawyer but I suspect that the Board's attorney has advised them of the same thing.

AllAmerican11B
AllAmerican11B

What I stated would be equal. Is there some reason you don't like my equal solution?

They all should have been fired up front, period.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Nav. You have no knowledge of the real world. Your posts offer proof every five minutes. You want all of us to take care of you, so you can be insulated from the real world.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Having read the link to the complaint I don't know what the district could have done given the nature, frequency and use of the material. If an incident with a student and the teacher ever occurred, and the district was in possession of this material prior and hadn't acted in the strongest way possible, they would have been liable.

GrumpyOldMan
GrumpyOldMan

Firing Harris was the right move, on principle. The Board did a reasonable job of trying to differentiate among the participants in porngate. As a taxpayer in the district, I supported (and urged the Board to appeal) the appeal of the arbitrator's decision, despite knowing the odds were against victory, as arbitrator's decisions are seldom overturned. The principle was more important. Board critics should ponder what would have happened if they fired everyone ... more lawsuits and people griping about extra legal costs. They were placed in a no win situation. Such is life.

That said, now that the legal fight is over, it is time to show some grace. Lobby the DPI for Harris' license to be revoked if you want him out. That's probably all that is left for options unless you want to pay him off to go away. In the meantime, he's teaching again ... make the best of it.

The big issue on the front burner for the district is that the teachers' union is now requesting another contract for 2014-15. The Board should have the sense to understand the lack of flexibility a contract gives the district. I will be letting them know as much and you should as well. Note that the Board President, Ellen Lindgren has run for office as a Democrat and appears to support Mary Burke, so you know her bias. I think the Board did a reasonable job as it applies to porngate ... they listened to parents about standing on principle. Perhaps they will do the same if you speak up about any new teachers' union contract.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Well stated. Rather than crying over spilled milk we need to get the MEA out of Middleton schools.

Austin J
Austin J

That has to be Job1 for the Middleton School Board. And, if they don't do it, they need to go - all of them.

bk
bk

Right. Replace them with the folks down at the Job Center.

Robe13
Robe13

Everybody needs to check out this site, because so many people on both side of this story have been getting facts wrong. After you look then you can then argue with the facts, because arguing without facts it is pretty much pointless.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Robe13,

Nobody cares what another half-witted bureaucrat thinks. Parents don't want their kids taught by a moron/pervert. This fact alone should have been enough to send the moron/pervert packing. The fact it wasn't reveals the necessity of eliminating the Middleton Education Association roadblock from decisions impacting children in the future. That the Middleton school board continues to allow the MEA into our schools has demonstrated the necessity of getting different school board members.

Robe13
Robe13

This site has testifying and facts, it is not an opinion.

"About two years before the October 7, 2009 incident (the one complained about), the team’s relationship with Kristen Davis had become difficult. Davis opened a MySpace account on the computer and invited students to be her friends on it. Both students and her adult friends were using the site. The other team members objected because they thought that Davis had crossed the lines between teacher and student, and that students should not see some of the adult conversations about drunkenness and profanity that appeared on Davis’ MySpace site."

Kristen Davis is the one who complained, her team members came to her about this MySpace thing. Harris, Cochems, and Feinstein confronted about this, they didn't ignore Davis and go over her, they addressed it with her personally. Involving student in conversations about profanity and drunkenness, in my opinion, is worse than 23 sick jokes his sister.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Again. Nobody cares. That this moron viewed porn at work 23 times is stupid, unprofessional and beyond question. He needs to be replaced with a more qualified teacher.

Now we all understand why this can't happen but this doesn't make it right. Its also clear that in order to prevent this from happening in the future:

1.) The MEA needs to be thrown out of middleton schools
2.) We need a new school board

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

I told you Robe. Anti-union conservatives just won't let inconvenient facts get in the way of their rants.

sarge
sarge

Don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your little witch hunt.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart has been telling everyone to familiarize themselves with the case. Fart is right.
Here is the complaint against the teacher and a description of the materials, its frequency and content, as well as who sent it to said teacher over time on a school district email account to be read on a school computer. Warning. Some of the material is very explicit, but does offer the reason why the district disciplined Mr. Harris differently. Thanks you Fart for suggesting we become more familiar with the facts. Again some material is explicit but it does help in understanding the full scope of the case, and the administration's reasons fo disciplining Harris differently. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

happydays
happydays

Read it through - before I commented- and still have to say - I hate unions - but in this case - they got it right- you are all acting like a bunch of prissy old ladies gossiping about someone showing too much ankle. Again - he did a stupid thing- you don't kill the guy for it - and all this judgemental BS - you would think you had never seen a picture of a naked woman.

witness2012
witness2012

Agreed. He may have shown poor judgement, but sending those emails does not make him a sex offender.

What exactly do objecting parents think is going to happen in his 50 minute class?

If I had a child who was going to be a student in the class, I might go and talk to Harris beforehand, but I don't think I would send my kid to a study hall instead. I'm pretty sure my child would be in the class.

Austin J
Austin J

I have no problem with YOUR kid sitting in this clown's class. I would have a real serious problem with my own kid sitting in his class - I wouldn't permit it. I hope the other parents have enough common sense to keep their kids away from this creep.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

It doesn't matter. If there is a single teacher not stupid enough to behave as Harris did they deserve Harris' job more than he does.

madisoncabbie
madisoncabbie

Conservatives will NEVER look at the whole story and will LIE to get their point across even if it warps the meaning and the purpose of the story. MORAL: CONSERVATIVES CAN NEVER BE WRONG. They just go to jail.

adamman
adamman

I'm totally amazed at how polarizing this issue is. Very few people see what a farce it is. According to what I've been informed of by another commenter, Harris has been getting paid for FOUR YEARS (minus 15 days) while he's been suspended!!!!!!!!
If uncounted other people in our economic system had the same opportunity, ie: getting a 4 year vacation WITH pay!!!!, how many would violate school policy and take a FOUR VACATION? (minus 15 days). This is absolutely outrageous from the average working person's perspective. Even many apologists for Harris agree that what he did was stupid and against school policy. The rationalization (rational lies) that others did it too do not excuse Harris or any of his partners in stupidity.
If we were to apply Solomon's approach to this issue, at the very least Harris has allowed the baby to be cut in half to pursue his own selfish interests. If he had just displayed a modicum of shame and regret for this, the current controversy and waste of taxpayer's money would not be an issue.
It is apparent that this issue goes way beyond the malfeasance of Harris and his fellow emailers. The whole system stinks when things get this out of control.
Norwood44 summed it up pretty well in a previous post: What have we learned here?

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Boy adam I tried to spell things out for you and you still couldn't glean the correct information. Ok. Maybe you gleaned the correct information and chose to inaccurately represent that information.

Harris was not getting paid since he was discharged on Jan. 4, 2010. Because the arbitrator ruled that Harris' discharge was excessive, arbitrary and an abuse of discretion the district was ordered to reinstate Harris and to make Harris whole.

As for your nonsense about other employees trying to get disciplined so they can get a four year paid vacation? Well that's just more nonsense from uninformed, anti-union activists. In fact if you read the arbitrators report you would discover just how stupid your suggestion really is.

adamman
adamman

Fart, you obviously don't understand scarcasm And the "nonsense from uninformed, anti-union activists" is total misdirected. It is uninformed, anti-union nonsense from myself and myself only. And I'm not opposed to unions, only the nonsense that comes from unions.
Perhaps your criticism would be more credible if your screen name wasn't synonymous with a gaseous discharge.
So, I'm to understand from a statesman like you that Harris is getting all his back pay? If that is true, it still stinks, like a fart in the wind.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

And all of this nonsense about letting a half-witted bureaucrat decide what is good and fair is entirely due to the parents electing school board officials that continue to turn over their authority to teachers unions.

It's time Parents take back the schools starting with Middleton's school board. It's time to run the MEA out on a rail.

sarge
sarge

Half witted bureaucrat? Like your best bud Scott walker?

bk
bk

We need Mob Rule!!!!!!!

Norwood44
Norwood44

Finally got a link to the admin complaint and evidence against Harris. There were over twenty emails in question, many of them with multiple images ranging from PG 13 to porn to something with dwarves that was deemed as beyond porn. Not kidding. The administrator moved to fire Harris because he had the most porn over the longest time and showed it to female staffers and he never indicated once via email response that the person sending the porn should cease sending to his school computer and email account. The strangest thing is that this material was being sent to him regularly by his sister. Over twenty emails containing multiple pictures or film clips of objectionable material, porn, including display or representation of female and male genitilia, and explicit sexual terminology. Here's the link. The teacher meeting discussions were also pretty explicit. Happy reading. Stand tall Fart. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You have had this link for months Norwood; yet still you haven't actually read it cover to cover. You still refuse to acknowledge that taxpayers are not on the hook because the district wanted to fire Harris. The taxpayers are on the hook because the district and fools like you believe the district should have been allowed to act contrary to the law.

So yes Norwood, I'll stand tall while you continue to slither.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Our take on the info is different. I argue the report confirms that Harris should have been fired for the reasons stated. The most porn for the longest time, and showing it to female staffers. All of the porn resided on the school district server under Mr. Harris' account. The amount viewed by others seems to be less, and not shared with staffers of the opposite sex. Have a nice day.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Why are you so obsequiously obtuse norwood? Over and over again you have been given the facts and over and over again you misrepresent the facts.

The report confirms that it would have been perfectly acceptable to fire Harris if they had fired at least some of the others. Since they didn't fire any of the others the decision to fire Harris was arbitrary and an abuse of discretion.

You keep restating the district's arguments norwood. Unfortunately those arguments were rejected by the arbitrator, the district court and the court of appeals. Those arguments were so incredulous the supreme court wouldn't even entertain them. Yet you keep parroting them as if somehow they will suddenly become credible.

Norwood44
Norwood44

No Fart. I haven't had this link for months. I found on these boards today. I have a day job. Your job is protecting your union so you're all over it. I get it. Hell, you could be the lawyer for Mr. Harris for all we know.

adamman
adamman

Fart, I have read all your comments and all of Norwood's comments. I think both of you have delved into this matter in great depth and detail.
I don't have a horse in this race other to observe the insanity.
However, when I compare your comments to Norwood's, Norwood comes across as much more reasoned and objective and fact based. Norwood's conclusions have much more credibility than what I read from you.
(The slither comment didn't play too well, either).

Buckyz
Buckyz

Crow Barr: E-4 and a grunt? Kind of used to your opinion being ignored? LOL......

But FWIW...I highly doubt that Sarge is/was in the military. If he was, he was no doubt dishonorably discharged as a collaborator.

Nav
Nav

Mr. Harris won because of the legal merits of his case. Period. If he received support from the Union in getting the law to be implemented, why on earth should be we fault the union for that?

Act 10 will be reversed by a future legislature in a few years if it is not reversed by the Supreme Court THIS year.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

This wasn't a matter of the "law". It was a finding based on the contractual regime that was in place with MEA when Mr. Harris was viewing/sharing is workplace porn.

No one is disputing that the district's hands are tied. At issue is that 3 years into this mess the district again entered into a new contractual regime with the MEA. It's time to hold this idiot school board accountable.

GrumpyOldMan
GrumpyOldMan

The MCPASD School Board has been approached by the MEA (the teachers' union) to negotiate another collective bargaining agreement for 2014-15. If you think this is a bad idea for the district (and I do), email Supt Johnson and the Board....today. Based on a review of the Board minutes, I believe the Board will be making a decision on this issue soon.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Why can't you get it through your head gk. Act 10 wouldn't have protected the district in this case. Disparate treatment is still illegal in public sector employment of classified employees.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Where did I say that Act 10 had anything to do with this case? I think you have your subjects of personal attack mixed up.

But I'll make it simple for you.

The problem dear fart is that the school board decided to enter into ANOTHER contract with MEA AFTER all of this nonsense with Mr. Harris.

You'd think if the board's interests were aligned with parents instead of the teachers union they would have given themselves the freedom to dismiss cretins like Harris should the discover more of them in the future.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

"Act 10 will be reversed by a future legislature in a few years if it is not reversed by the Supreme Court THIS year."

You are completely delusional.

Please explain how the US supreme court would invalidate Act 10 when Federal Employees also do not have collective bargaining rights?

Please explain how Act 10 will be repealed when Burke doesn't even support doing this?

Norwood44
Norwood44

Mr. Harris had over twenty emails with multiple pictures, films or representation of male and female genitilia, including a nude woman using her legs as windshield wipers on a car and another woman bent over with a hunting target painted on her naked buttocks to celebrate the beginning of "bow season". There was also some material featuring dwarves. Harris was disciplined differently because he had the most porn over the longest period of time and never once told the person sending it, his sister, to stop sending the material to his school computer and email account. And, unlike others, he showed it to female staffers. Here's the link if you want to read more. Stand tall Nav. Stand tall. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Robe13
Robe13

farther down on that page Norwood sited is everything on everyone who had stuff found on their computer, i think everyone should check it out

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You are being unrealistic Robe. People like norwood believe that it was fair to single out Harris. They aren't about to let inconvenient facts get in their way.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Yes Robe. Read it. But the administration weighed in on degree and count, arguing that Harris had the most porn for the longest time. Fart seems to argue that a person opening one objectionable email should be judged the same as someone with multiple images in multiple emails over a longer time. I disagree with Fart's position. Take a DUI arrest for example. The penalty for the first is not the same as the sixth.

bk
bk

This is not a DUI in which there is potentially a "fair" hearing in a real court.

The number of occurrences should not be considered unless there was an intervention between each occurrence... unless specifically stated in some sort of understood policy.


Had this been actual pornography or especially "kiddie porn" we'd be having a more one-sided discussion. This was nudity used as humor, not for arousal.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Are you denying that the aforementioned material was not on Mr. Harris' computer? Do you deny that he had more porn and showed it to female teachers while others did not? Do you deny that?

bk
bk

First off, nudity does not equate to pornography. Second, suggesting that sharing photos of nude people with women as opposed to men is inherently sexist.

Waroroses
Waroroses

I predict that child porn will be totally accepted some day just like euthanasia, abortion, gay marriage and all the other things have been. As long as child porn enthusiasts can vote the liberals will rather have them show up on polling day rather than being incarcerated.

happydays
happydays

oh come on - is that necessary?

bk
bk

It's more likely that republican gouvernor does will parade sex offenders out to use as props for his speeches as an example of good policy.

Norwood44
Norwood44

What have we learned here? Mr. Harris was 1) A victim 2) Should have been dismissed but only if other teachers were dismissed 3) A target of a school board conspiracy 4) A target of a conspiracy from other teachers 5) Within his rights to look at "naughty" pictures from his sister 23 times on a school computer while teaching at a middle school 6) Anyone who objects to Mr. Harris' actions, including a fellow teacher, is a prude 7) Mr. Harris can look at anything he wants online at any time he so desires provided students don't see it, and it is not clearly prohibited in his contract. Did I miss anything Fart?

Austin J
Austin J

Norwood, I think you've summarized the progressive's viewpoint quite nicely.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You would miss the forest for the trees and the broadside of a barn Norwood. Nice straw man arguments though.

I have never referred to Harris as a victim. Harris was clearly targeted by another teacher whose motivations have been discredited. The arbitrator clearly feels that the district's abuse of discretion was at least partially motivated by the Harris' legally protected union activities. Neither I nor the arbitrator nor the courts believe the district was prohibited from firing Harris for accessing inappropriate material just because the District's AUP was weak.

The fact that you support district's disparate treatment of employees hangs like a stone around your neck norwood. Long may you slither.

Norwood44
Norwood44

You deny that Harris is a victim and the proceed to say he was targeted by another teacher. Hmmmm. As for the school board's decision to proceed and take a stand, I support them. Sometimes taking a stand is costly. The board stood by their decision. Good for them. I am sure citizens are speaking to the board members and will speak with their vote in the future. But the community elected the board and they were empowered by the community to make these decisions based on their character and reputation. Imagine if something happened later with Harris and a student. The board would have been seen as entirely irresponsible knowing that material was on the district server because of Mr. Harris. Have a good day Fart.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Boy you really are like the board. You want to have it both ways.

You are right about one thing. The community elected the board. Regardless of any discernible political leanings the board might have, the board took a stand that was aligned with a commonly held tea party sentiment that employers should empowered to do what they want when they want to whomever they want without regard to fairness, equity or the rule of law.

Yes this board took a stand. That tea party stand cost that community nearly $1 million. If the community has learned anything let it be that tea party sentiments about the rights of workers are damned expensive.

Nav
Nav

I don't approve of what this teacher in terms of accessing his e-mail but I want to know what is the District's policy on this? Do they have it in writing? Do they subject EVERYONE to the same standards?

The legal advice the District got from their attorney is the correct advice. Lawyers know the;law much better than people like Norwood44 and Samantha who are KNOWN union haters for a long time.

If people are that incensed about what happened, this is a Democracy---go elect a new Board and make sure that it applies its policy equally to all employees, including themselves.
We can change the board but not the law. That has to be changed by the legislature.

Samantha
Samantha

If you didn't approve of it, you wouldn't be spending the entire day on here endorsing him and his reinstatement.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Perhaps you can't see the difference sam but supporting fairness and equity is not the same as endorsing Harris' behavior.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

If the end result is a moron/pervert continuing to be paid by taxpayers than all I see is a distinction without a difference.

Austin J
Austin J

Perhaps YOU can't see the difference here - all you're advocating is "fairness" for a creep who watches porn at school. You have no concern, however, for any fairness for the children, the parents, or the taxpayers who now have to support this creep financially, and have their children subjected to him. For that matter, where's your concern for "fairness" for all the good teachers who are going to take a beating in this as well??

Where is the fairness for them - Oh, that's right, none of them count. The only one to be concerned about is a creep watching porn in school.

bk
bk

I must invoke the "First they came" poem by Pastor Neimoller.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Yes, if Middleton voters leave a single incumbent after this next election cycle they deserve to have profoundly stupid, porn-addicted teachers.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

For all you teachers union apologists ponder this scenario:

Imagine it is discovered that a loan officer at a local branch of major national bank for the last several years was taking loan documentation home with him, was careless with it and because of these actions at least one applicant’s SSN# and account #s found their way onto the internet. You and hundreds of other people realize that you acquired your current mortgage years ago through this individual and are now unsure if your financial identity is still secure. You are horrified to learn that despite the Bank’s acknowledgement that this loan officer’s repeated lapses in judgment made them completely unfit to do their job company policy forbade them from terminating an employee on their first offense and the costs of a wrongful termination lawsuit were just too high. And just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse for Working People(TM) who just want to feel secure working with their financial institution you learn that during a regular corporate board meeting the issue is discussed and the policies that prevented the removal of the untrustworthy loan officer go completely unchanged.

Don’t you think Zweefs, the Craver, Envy or the Emissary of Fanlundia would be screaming at the top of their lungs about these “fat cats putting profits over the Working People(TM)”? At least in this fictitious scenario individuals could choose to take their banking business elsewhere but what are the Working People(TM) that can’t afford private tuition supposed to do? Just trust their elected leaders in the Middleton school board?

The bottom line is that anyone with two neurons to rub together knows that you shouldn't look at porn at work. So either Mr. Harris and his cohorts are too profoundly stupid to be effective teachers or they have an addiction that probably makes them ill-suited to be around minors. The board recognized this and attempted to remove Mr. Harris from teaching at their district but were stymied by previous contracts they entered into with the Middleton Education Association. Despite this, in 2013 they AGAIN entered into a new contract with the MEA. So like Mr. Harris, the Middleton school district revealed themselves to be too profoundly stupid to effectively run a school district or have an addiction to teacher union money that probably makes them ill-suited to suitably protect the interests of the Working People(TM).

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Just more and more drivel from you gk.

The issue is disparate treatment of employees. Anti-union activists like you believe that employees should not be allowed to work in consort to prevent disparate treatment. Fortunately most people with "two active neurons to rub together" disagree with you. Which of course explains why people like you deflect and dissemble.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

And this is exactly why I laugh whenever I hear teachers refer to themselves as "professionals".

A true "professional" only needs to rely on the value inherent to their profession to ensure satisfactory treatment.

If teachers where true "professionals" they would gladly accept being employed solely at the will of district taxpayers. If given the choice between paying less for a certifiable moron who was found to have looked at porn at least 23 times while at work or someone with the professionalism to comport themselves as a true professional I think its self-evident what Middleton voters would choose.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Your ignorance of reality is astounding GK.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Read the administration's charges against Harris. Lots of images and films showing or depicting male and female genitila and poses. The administration makes the case for Harris as being different for three simple reasons. 1) He has the most porn and objectionable material over the longest time 2) He showed it to female staffers and 3) He never told the person sending him the material to stop sending it to his school email account.

Crow Barr
Crow Barr

Quick, all you perverts throwing rocks at this guy for opening an email, the Sundance Film Festival is winding down and Rob Thomas has reviews, maybe naughty clips, from the 17 movies he reviewed. Do it, go to MadisonMovie.org.

Buckyz
Buckyz

Sarge has suffered numerous injuries to his head over the years. He was one of those loonies who refused to wear a Kevlar helmet because it was not union made. Cut him some slack guys.

Crow Barr
Crow Barr

Maybe his family did not buy him a better helmet and mail it to him because the GOP war machine had no desire to properly supply our troops.

sarge
sarge

The Kevlar helmets , like all military helmets, only protect the user from penetration injury. The over pressure from big IEDs would leave all these kids bleeding from their noses and often times with spinal fluid leaking out of their ears. Military helmets leave a lot to be desired but it's especially egregious that our helmets do nothing to mitigate kinetic energy. Especially since motorcycle helmet technology has been doing that for 40 years. The latest
MC helmet tech actually adds a floating shell between the EPS Layer and the out shell that can absorb the kinds of hits that have been leaving our boys with

Austin J
Austin J

This is going to be a wake-up call for the Middleton School Board. Either you get control of those schools and how they're run or get voted out of office. One or the other. Instead of "playing nice" with the union in the hope that they will play nice with you, you'd better get the blinders off, and now. And I hope the voters of Middleton have finally had their eyes opened as well as to just who is in control of those schools, and what they consider acceptable teachers.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Austin J. It sounds like you are a Walker snorter. Can’t you see the difference between what some of Walkers choices were compared to what the Middleton school district’s teachers are? Or are you part of the problem there. The situation about the hockey coaches is a prime example of shortsighted thinking and second guessing that seems to be prevalent among some of the people who write in these columns.

Your union bias is obvious as is you one mistake and you out attitude. I do not doubt you feel that the welder who was paraded across the stage in Walker’s dog and pony show should also be fired based on your logic. How sad!

Austin J
Austin J

Don't tell me who I am or what I stand for. I'll tell YOU.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Austin:

If you actually bothered reading the arbitrator's report you would discover that Harris was likely singled out for his union activities and not because his conduct was worse than other employees. The board wasted nearly $1 million trying to follow your strategy of taking control. You need to take your blinders off and realize that taking control does not mean disparate treatment.

sarge
sarge


Oh how outrageous. my prudish republican friends... A teacher is hung out to dry for silly behavior on his company email but walker's one time right hand man and secret email router operator is the sickest sort of pervert. Not only stealing from children of our dead and wounded vets but literally driving around in a van full of porn attempting to lure a child into the van for sex. did our tax dollars pay for the van ? It certainly payed for the illegal router and the smart phones which Brian pierick used to send pictures of pierick's a junk and Tim russle's sexual advances to a child. Where was your outrage then. When Tim russle gets out of jail (early, one assumes) I expect you all to complain bitterly and then hound him in whatever employment he finds when he leaves prison , just as I expect the state urinal to hound him with daily updates of where he works, lives and if he is seen talking to any boys.Anything less would be highly hypocritical. It also might be a bit more consistent if you would remember that Scott walker hired both of these Pederast thieves. I think all of you folks owe to yourself to google and then read this:

State of Wisconsin vs Brian pierick
And ask yourselves why walkers BFF is not now a registered sex offender.
The read should help you tell the difference between the "email scandal" in Verona and serious deviancy by public servants.

Austin J
Austin J

Yeah, sarge, you keep spinning that line. See if you can find anyone to buy it. So far, you're batting zero.

sarge
sarge

Batting zero with people like you. You are a hypocrite. When your side commits aggravated deviant acts on the tax payers dime that's ok. When a teacher does something relatively benign on a company email you want his blood. Clearly it says a lot about you and little about the teacher in question.

Crow Barr
Crow Barr

sarge---this E-4 grunt has your back on this one. Walker runs in a crowd of crooks.

Austin J
Austin J

Total nonsense.

Minakwa708
Minakwa708

Harris has NO class and he is instructing your kids. I am SO glad my children are out of the Madison School District where teachers can watch porn while they pass along liberal agenda's of half truths and lies about our country. What I want to know is where are you liberal feminists who are ALWAYS so concerned about women being objects? Where is your scorn? Oh quiet again.....You people in Madison get what you vote for.

Norwood44
Norwood44

The person in question won the appeal fair and square. In fact, he will probably sue again and win. His lawyer is monitoring the situation closely because he deserves every protection under the law, as Fart so eloquently describes. So now the only question that remains is how will the Solidarity Singers celebrate this event in joyous song? A few numbers to consider..."Every Picture Tells A Story"..."Freeze Frame"...."The Kids Are All Right".... "Afternoon Delight".... "Ring My Bell".... "Photograph" (admittedly Def Leopard could be a challenge for some of the older singers)..."Don't Stand So Close to Me"....". And of course the old standard..."Be True To Your School". If anyone has a request, just chime right in. This hootenanny is sure rival Mr. Holland's Opus.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

More deflections and misstatements from our resident anti-union activist and demagogue Norwood.

The person in question did not win the appeal fair and square. THE DISTRICT LOST their appeal fair and square. This point is not a distinction without a difference.

So go ahead norwood. Keep deriding those who believe in fairness and equity.

The facts are clear norwood. The board you so vociferously defend in your anti-union rants blew nearly $1 million fighting for the right to treat employees disparately. The arbitrator, the district court, and the appeals court rejected the arguments made by you and the board. The supreme court found your arguments so incredulous they wouldn't even entertain them.

Sure you might get some traction out of your phony claims about unions supporting a teacher who looked at porn. In the end however most people are going to see through the charade. You advocate for enshrining a system where employers can do what they want when they want to whomever they want without regard fairness, equity or the law. And you want to make sure that employees cannot work in concert to prevent or minimize such behavior.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. I disagree with you as did the school board of Middleton. I think it's clear that they did their job, knowing they might be overturned. But they stood on principle. That's a good thing in my eyes. Having read the materials, I think they had no choice but to fire Harris.

Samantha
Samantha

I REALLY want to thank all the union slaves who've posted on this subject - especially NAV, sarge, fart, and spooky - for so vividly illustrating to readers just why Act 10 is so desperately needed in this state, and why it is absolutely essential for us to free our schools of this union stranglehold, if we are ever going to get our country's educational system out of the doldrums.

As long as this type of scenario continues to play out in our school systems, with these kinds of people allowed in the classrooms, and these kinds of public expenditures required to try to rid the system of these people and their abuses of the schools, our children and the taxpayers, our educational system will continue to decline. Vouchers, anyone?

Nav
Nav

Samantha,

Nice plug for vouchers but no one is buying?,

No one has designated you or anyone else as the guardian of tax payer's interests.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Samantha. Only Nav is allowed make broad pronouncements unsubstantiated by fact on this board. Nav "senses" that all the people in Wisconsin agree with Nav all the time. In fact NO ONE has any problem with JUSTICE for this teacher. Right Nav?

Nav
Nav

Norwood44,

I have no more rights on this board as you or anyone else.

One such right is to express my point of view and analysis the way I see it.

As I understand it, the teacher did not expose the kids to anything. Correct me if I understand wrong.

The teacher should not have done what he did, but what he did is NOT a reason for termination unless the Board has a policy prohibiting the practice AND it implements it vigorously with everyone equally. This has nothing to do with a union; this is a legal matter. The Board's attorney gave it good sound advice, and he knows a LOT more about the law than you, Samantha and other KNOWN union haters who seem to thrive on these types of stories.

Samantha
Samantha

Keep your blue fist in the air Nav. You and your union pals have proved Walker's case against public unions better than anyone else could have.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Harris didn't innocently open an email. The investigation found 23 emails on his school computer that were deemed objectionable and against policy. He passed some around to other teachers. He asked a female teacher to look at an image that was objectionable to the point that she felt uncomfortable in her work place and reported him. Harris will file another suit, get a big settlement and retire. The union lawyer is already documenting it. The board will have to more clearly define what porn is and that teachers can't look at in a middle school. Solidarity.

sarge
sarge

Weren't you just on another thread wanting to give a break to the registered sex offender that walker posed with the other night?

Norwood44
Norwood44

No. I wasn't. What your next question?

adamman
adamman

Was that Joe, the Welder? Whatever happened to background checks? Now Harris has to worry about them if he ever leaves the Muddleton (sp intended) School District. But as Norwood pointed out, the end game is probably a big law suit settlement for Harris and retirement in Thailand.

adamman
adamman

Norwood seems to have a solid grasp on the situation. Maybe Act 10 was too weak. The teacher's union would better serve it's members by getting the bad apples out of the proverbial barrel. (I never thought I would post a pro Scotty comment, but the times, they are a'changin).

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

Norwood44. Again you bend the “facts” . Cite your source or correct your statement.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

You just can't help but post factually incorrect, anti-union drivel can you norwood.

Harris did not pass these email on to other teachers. He did not ask the female teacher to look at an objectionable picture, she returned to look at it after seeing Harris' reaction and the reaction of others in the work group. The arbitrator scoffed at this woman's complaints because of her past actions.

And why is it that you completely ignore the fact that Harris tried to settle with the district for far less money than he has now received. And please don't try and bring up more district nonsense that was discredited by the arbitrator and rejected by the district court and the appeals court. Remember, the district's case was so discredited that the supreme court wouldn't even entertain it.

Of particular note is the fact that while the district and you try to portray Harris' conduct as somehow immoral and a threat to children, the district didn't find similar conduct immoral when others engaged in it and the district assured parents that children were never at risk. Bottom line, the district's case that somehow Harris' conduct was worse than the conduct of others or a threat to children has thoroughly been discredited.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Fart. Are you involved in this case? Do you have information that is not available to the rest of us? How about a link to the pictures and complaint in question? That would help clarify some of the facts of the discussion. The only link I have seen is the court's ruling...but no links to the pictures or behavior in question. Thanks. The female teacher did file a complaint..correct?

Robe13
Robe13

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Norwood44
Norwood44

fart. Is this quote wrong? "A complaint by a female teacher whom Harris had shown an image of a nude woman prompted the investigation, which determined 23 emails Harris received from his sister over several years violated the district’s acceptable use policy."

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/education/local_schools/students-of-teacher-who-viewed-porn-to-be-offered-study/article_347f6866-577d-5380-9e37-8506821ae510.html#ixzz2rQpAUTUF

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Context is everything norwood. But please feel free to continue trying to deflect criticism of the Board. They are the one's to blame for this debacle.

Your support for the board exposes your anti-worker nonsense.

Robe13
Robe13

The only reason this case has more publicity than the other teachers, is that another teacher had a vendetta against him and her husband "anonymously" released information to the press. It is all detailed in this link, check it out, it is the case transcript.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

number6
number6

Thanks very much for the citation (and also to Robe 13, and to anyone else who may also have provided it). A few statements I found interesting:

1. 'The District never alleged that any students or children were involved at any time and has at all times stated that no students or children were involved.'

2. 'The problem is that the District can’t have it both ways. It cannot go to the parents and the press and say – there’s no harm to your kids, no risk, don’t worry, and then go to the DPI and say – there’s risk and harm of endangerment.'

3. 'The fact that Davis saw (due to her own actions) a pornographic photo on Harris’ computer does not rise to the level of harassment or sexual harassment.'

Also: what a circus. That teachers would use work email for any sort of personal purpose is a reflection of the evolution of email in our culture, of course, and I assume that such usage is no longer occurring among Middleton schools employees! I bet Ms Davis never imagined the breadth of revelations that would eventually stem from her complaint.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

If I were a parent in this district I'd want to know more about this Davis. Seems to me her self-serving complaint triggered this whole mess. Furthermore, her own behavior, interaction with students and professionalism has been seriously called into question.

Of course if this district weren't run and advised by a bunch of idiots her charade would have been exposed right from the beginning.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

spooky tooth stated, "I'm much more offended by the popups on madison.com.
Anyone else getting these really annoying popups when you accidently run your cursor over them?"

Yes! If they continue I will simply find a different digital paper to get the news. Those ads are pure @&*#!

adamman
adamman

toothseeker: Yes, the pop ups are annoying but I see their value in keeping my online subscription fee low enough to afford. Without the advertising revenue, WSJ would need to raise prices or go into business with the Koch brothers.

About the teacher situation. I'm afraid that, based on the outcome, other teachers will follow the example of Harris so as to reduce their class sizes. I'm sure Harris is congratulating himself that his strategy worked. Who knows, perhaps he will be teaching a class with just two or three students by the end of the week. That should give him more time to surf the world wide internet. And keep up with email. The good news is that the schools will need to hire more study hall monitors, at least at that school. The credit will go to Governor Walker for creating more jobs. (And I think less cheating goes on in study hall than in the classroom).
Harking back to a question I posed previously and none of my esteemed colleagues answered, did Harris continue getting his pay check while suspended during 4 years? Or does he now get all the back pay? (okay, eggo, that's 2 questions. My bad).

happydays
happydays

This is just silly making and you know it Adamman - I hope every thing you have ever done that is questionable in your life never comes into the public realm. Or maybe it will - karma is a funny thing - hits you when you least expect it.

adamman
adamman

I am a babe as to badness. Yes, I did away with Jimmy Hoffa, I was the second shooter on the grassy knoll and I AM D.B. Cooper. (I hope those nice people from the FBI or NSA or NASA pay me a visit now).
And I also screwed up at school on occasion. Once I got caught by the janitor on the school roof attempting to retrieve an errant tennis ball. I got written up for that. However, I was a stupid kid, not a stupid teacher.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Harris was suspended with pay until his termination. The arbitrator's order required back pay less Harris' unpaid suspension (15 days). To spell it out for you since you apparently couldn't glean it from the numerous articles on the issue, this means Harris is due a sum of money for all lost wages and benefits dating from the beginning of his unpaid suspension on January 4, 2010, less the 15 days suspension and any unemployment Harris received, until reinstatement.

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the district's current problems were not created when Harris used school equipment to view inappropriate material. The district's current problems were created when the district tried to justify disparate treatment of employees.

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

The blogs have two thoughts on what happened to Mr Harris. One group recognizes his right to make a mistake which did not impact any students and a second group wants to hang him. In looking at the reasons of the second group it is quite obvious that they are mostly misinformed do-gooders. They seem to get a certain inherited joy bashing someone. I guess it makes them feel better. And a few uneducated parents are now grandstanding in front of the school were Mr. Harris was transferred to and are continuing the puritanical and religious based parade of ignorance on this matter. How sad!

sarge
sarge

Yes if this man had simply had sex with a 15 year old and commited a bunch of parole violations he could have been walkers BFF.

goldennugget
goldennugget

And a union school teacher

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

truthzeeker,

Do you REALLY think anything would have come of this is if Mr. Harris made one mistake?

Actually reading this "digital paper" would be beneficial to you.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/education/local_schools/board-to-offer-reinstatement-to-middleton-teacher-who-looked-at/article_675acfb5-2253-5395-87a6-93d11860e455.html

"A complaint by a female teacher whom Harris had shown an image of a nude woman prompted the investigation, which determined 23 emails Harris received from his sister over several years violated the district’s acceptable use policy."

Please note:
1.) He offended another co-worker with his porn
2.) 23 emails of this nature were found
3.) This behavior went unreported for YEARS

Most rational people would call this a pattern of behavior and not a "mistake".

truthzeeker
truthzeeker

gkmoynihan Based on your digital information, this particular behavior has been evident for 4-5 years. That would be approximately 4-5 times a year. As none of us have access to what was actually shown, we can assume that:
1. It was pure porn.
2. It may have just been pictures of nudes.
3. It was adult jokes.
4. It was sexually oriented material.
5. It was a vendetta against the teacher.

Question is how many children were exposed to this material? From all indications, none. So this leaves the discussion in the world of adults. Also missing is that the “female” in question apparently had some problems in getting along with the teacher.

The teacher in question was also on the outs with the school board as he was involved in teacher negotiations and apparently didn’t agree with some of the board members on contract talks. So there may have been a vendetta against the teacher for that also.

in other words, what we are talking about is some normal adult indiscretions that were blown out of proportion as to what really happened.

So it comes down to you wanting to beat your moral religious drums and be dammed about the realities of the adult world. Personally one should say, “no harm, no foul”!

Norwood44
Norwood44

Truthz....good point. So how much porn or objectionable material should a middle school teacher be able to watch in an average work day if kids are kept from seeing it? Because if none of the kids see it...it's all good...right? That's your argument...only five or six times a year is no big deal. But that begs the question...is it OK with you then to watch porn only five to six times a day if kids don't see it? A teacher has rights correct? Do you draw any line at all? And if you do...what's a fair number of times a teacher can look at porn at school per day on average? Thanks in advance for your response.

Robe13
Robe13

Kristen Davis, the social studies teacher, had a vendetta against him, because Mr. Harris, Ms. Cochems, and Ms. Feinstein told her she shouldn't invite kids to follow her on MySpace, where her adult friends talk to her, and Harris stopped having her to card parties. Davis' husband leaked the information about one email to the press, even though there were 9 other teachers, some did arguably worse things online, and Davis had previously seen other email jokes before and did nothing.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Nice deflection gk.

Your assessment that he offended the coworker with the porn is contradicts the facts of the case. The arbitrator evaluated this and held that the case for harassment was just not sustainable.

The arbitrators ruling on the issue of harassment is on page 41. Here is the link. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Read it at your leisure, but please do so before posting anymore nonsense.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

I suppose this would matter to someone who cared what an arbitrator thinks.

As a parent I prefer to have teachers that have the minimum of intelligence and professionalism to not look at porn while at work. This alone should be enough to send Mr. Harris packing. Any argument to the contrary just validates my belief that :
1.) Teachers are not professionals
2.) Teachers unions interests and the interests of children are frequently in opposition.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Thanks for exposing yourself (pun intended) gk.

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Likewise. We can all now see you allegiance is to the union and not to the well-being of children. Its a wonderful thing when greed and entitlement override public worker's good sense to maintain the pretense that they aren't entirely in it for themselves and their mediocre brethren.

Nav
Nav

Then District's attorney, being knowledgeable about employment law, gave the District the right advice. This has nothing to do with the unions, or Act 10.

I am surprised how so many people seem to be unaware of how the law takes a dim view on discrimination. If the college wants to stop its staff from doing certain things (such as using its computers for accessing personal e-mail), that policy has to be in writing, it has to be communicated properly and effectively, AND there can be no exceptions to its implementation. In other words, some staff cannot be allowed to view personal e-mail and other staff be terminated for doing same. It does not work that way!

sarge
sarge

For the teacher haters, equal protection is only for large corporations

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Act 10 is a mere deflection. Harris was terminated on Jan 4 2010. At that point Act 10 wasn't even a pipe dream.

FTR, even with Act 10 school districts wouldn't be allowed to do what this district did.

DaneCounty
DaneCounty

No teacher was displaced to create a position for Mr. Harris. The former science teacher has been promoted to Dean of Students, a position he had been seeking for some time.
Second, the school board's decision was not a simple one. The district did not settle immediately (and avoid the very costly litigation) because the arbitration required providing a recommendation, which would have helped Harris find another teaching position. My understanding is the district felt an ethical obligation not to quietly pass him along to another district.

ssmith
ssmith

So the union jams through a contract extension brfore ACT 10 takes effect. Then a union activist teacher breaks "company policy" and views morally questionable material on school grounds. He gets canned, and rightly so, but his union thug friends stand up for him. This costs the hard working taxpayers $1M.. Then ridiculous union rules allow for him to displace a teacher at Kromrey, so someone else loses their job so this hack can be employed. Then parents get worried, and rightly so, and picket/protest. The district starts to worry about this louse feeling like he's subject to a hostile work environment and the spend extra taxpayer dough to help him get acclimated to his new class by having to employ a minder,AND try to satisfy good parents by offering a study hall. Kids in the study hall get no credit, and miss a semester of science....but they still get to pass and move on less prepared than they should.

This was completely avoidable. Fire the clown, save at least $1.3M, save the displaced teacher's job and kids take their class. Thanks Union. Oh, the best is yet to come....I guaranty this moron sues the district for a hostile work environment, ripping yet more of my hard earned money from my taxpayer pocket.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Mr. Smith:

Apparently you have not been following this case closely. No one was displaced to return Harris to the classroom. Harris was assigned to Kromrey because there was an open position.

Your fears that Harris might sue the district are valid but misplaced. The blame goes to school district administrators and the school board. They have botched this from the beginning. Their incompetence, not anything in the union contract have cost the taxpayers dearly.

sarge
sarge

Yup equal protection is the law. Nothing to do with unions.

sarge
sarge

Also, it wasn't really so much porn but the exact same kind of "humorous" low brow chain e mails that people forward to each other all too often. Hard to call pics of fat naked people porn even if it is less than classy stuff. The simple fact is lots of people do this or have done this , including I'm absolutely sure, some of the very people expressing false outrage in this very thread. In fact one the email lists I've been on the vast majority of this sort of annoying spam has been from self identified political conservatives.

Norwood44
Norwood44

Mr. Smith. Don't you understand? Mr. Harris is the victim. How many times does Fart you have tell you people? The school board is the villain. The other teacher is the villain. Prudes are the villains. Parents who object to Mr. Harris are the villains. I hope we have cleared this up for you.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

So are you trying to validate Mr Smith's ignorance Norwood. Par for your course.

LiLa
LiLa

I had hoped that we had moved beyond calling teachers, "thugs."

Retired PE
Retired PE


" . . . students won’t get credit for the study hall. They won’t get a grade for the science class, but that won’t prevent them from being promoted to eighth grade or to high school, Hibner said." I just don't get this quote. Aren't there a regular number of credits that a kid must take to move from grade-to-grade? If the kid isn't going to receive the credit and guaranteed a promotion anyway, is that not just asking for the kids to leave the class (less homework, etc.) when they know that a promotion to the next grade will be there? And, without a full semester of a science class behind them, how will that negatively affect the kid's next year in a science class considering the kid will be one semester behind? This does not seem to be a logical solution from the district considering Americans are so far behind in science knowledge in the first place. I can almost guarantee you that the kids at this age are far less concerned about the teacher and the whole issue than are the parents. I can almost also guarantee you that kids of this age have read or seen probably a whole lot worse than whatever it was the teacher was viewing on work time! It will be parents pulling their kids from the class and not the choice of the kid. And, who ends up suffering? The kid who is now one full semester behind in science knowledge.

njarendt
njarendt

All the teachers that viewed the porn at Middleton schools should be fired plain and simple. If the school board does not do it then they should be replaced. This shows how teaching and society has degraded in the last few years. And bumping a quality teacher so this jerk can get a job disgusting. The union is in this just like the teacher and this says the union is just as bad as the teacher.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

How many times do you bozos have to be told. No teacher was bumped. Harris was assigned an open position.

smk
smk

So, kids who are unwilling to be in the classroom with someone of extremely questionable judgment are denied the chance to learn SCIENCE? What a short-sighted solution -- this greatly disadvantages the kids in favor of protecting a creep.

bk
bk

You are a little convoluted aren't you?

I'm pretty sure that it goes more like this:

"So kids who don't like science can also scapegoat Andy in order to get out of having to learn? And their parents support this? The school board supports this?"


I suspect that the real reason that Andy received the most severe punishment is directly related to his role in the contract negotiation back in 2008. He sort of aggressively stood up for his rights then... as he is now. People in positions of authority tend to hate it when their "subjects" think that they have rights.


The school board has made a fool of itself. What Andy purportedly did here may have been in poor taste, but it was hardly "wrong" and far from a fireable offense. He ll, the kids wouldn't even know anything about this today were it not for the school board's idiocy.

A stern talking too would have put an end to the emails and sharing at work, but alas, we live in a society where punishing people is of significantly greater value that educating them.

swarley
swarley

after the first 10 emails from his family to a work computer do you think he should have told them to maybe send them to his home computer instead? and don't say he didn't have a home computer...he did.. He works in a middle school, he didn't just do inappropriate things in front (yes in the classroom) of students but made other female teachers uncomfortable as well. I hope the female teachers at this school will see it was the union who helped him out and stop paying dues to a union who doesn't care about them.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Swarley you boob.

Your entire post is filled with misrepresentations. The credibility of the complaining female teacher was addressed and dismissed by the arbitrator who was herself female. Allegations that anything happened in front of students are without merit.

sarge
sarge

People used to think their work email was private and I the early days of the net most people who had a email account only had one through their work. People were naive . What this guy did with his private time or what emails he shared with friends family and staff are none of our business except that he was stupid and did it on his work email. Ten years ago everyone was getting this stuff on their work email often from coworkers. Once again, its dumb but hardly Worth the attention its been getting from the teacher haters.

WI_Expat
WI_Expat

I own my own business and while don't look for porn, don't even link my personal email to the computers I use for business just knowing someone at sometime is going to send me an email that I'll open and it has an image that others would consider objectionable.

With an employer owned computer, it should be mandatory to prohibit personal use. The fact the guy was accepting personal email and spending work time viewing it should be reason to terminate.

Retired PE
Retired PE

WI_Expat, I agree with you on this one. When I was employed in the public sector, my employer's "internet use policy" when using the "company" equipment was quite specific in what could and could not be viewed or done on work time, and the consequences of breaking the policy were also quite specific - discipline up to and including firing from the job. Our computers were monitored by the IT Department. I cannot understand how a district as sophisticated as Middleton-Cross Plains would not have had such a policy in place. And such a policy would have been negotiated before Act 10 days; thus the teachers' union would have been "on board" with such a policy. I can imagine that such an Internet Use Policy must be in place for the students but not for the staff? It makes no sense.

Fartinthewind
Fartinthewind

Here's what's funny about all this. The arbitrator ruled that even though the district lacked definitive policies and even though the district didn't enforce the policies it had on the books the district could still fire employees who viewed inappropriate materials on school time or on school equipment after school hours.

In other words, the district wasn't prevented from firing Harris because of weak computer use policies. The district was prevented from firing Harris because his termination was viewed as arbitrary and capricious and completely out of proportion as compared to the punishments handed out to others.

Mister_i
Mister_i

One again, it's not the looking at porn. It's the passing it along to people and some people not wanting to see it. Also this happened on a computer not belonging to this person. Very simple. Most responsible places of employment have rules against this. If you choose to break this rule/policy, you're fired.

Lumberjack
Lumberjack

This case defies reason. A man looks at a porn pic from an email that his SISTER sent him and shares it with a few others on staff....not while in the classroom and not with the children. He was not a creeper sitting around looking at porn online while instructing. And from what has been reported and disclosed, this type of indiscretion with him had never happened before. Moreover, he wasn't doing drugs in school. He didn't come to work drunk. He wasn't abusing children. He looked at a girlie pic. So immediately this Board gets out its axe and fires him while the rest of those involved are disciplined or asked to retire somewhat early. Someone needs to ask the Board why? Was this crime really that heinous? Did the District have an absolute policy on this type of behavior at the time? How does looking at a porn pic sent in an email from a family member justify firing? Discipline him like the others, yes. But pillorying and firing? Perhaps more importantly, someone also needs to ask the Board why when they had two chances to offer Mr. Harris a buyout...the first time at a relatively cheap rate....they didn't take that opportunity....instead running up their legal fees to the tune of a million....that's a MILLION dollars! If I were a reasonable parent in this district, not a hysterical one, I would look into replacing this board and finding a new law firm that gives reasonable advice. All this board has done is to totally mishandle a rather insignificant incident, ruin the reputation of a good teacher who made a mistake, tarnish the name of their district, and WASTE a lot of precious tax payer dollars. Hope those Board members (as well as those who protest so loudly) don't live in glass houses.

Putsmeister
Putsmeister

Agree! I think the board needs to answer the question of why this guy was fired but the other teachers involved were not. I suspect it has something to do with his union involvement.

Mister_i
Mister_i

The problem isn't that anyone opened an email containing something that goes against policy. It's the fact that he passed it on several times to other co-workers. At any normal place of employment, if you receive one of these emails, nothing will happen other than maybe a reprimand but if you start sending it out on company computers, you're fired and you should be. I don't have a problem with porn. It's all over everywhere. I have a problem with someone using someone else's computer for this especially when they're supposed to be doing there job. Then there's the kids........ Teachers are all about the kids, at least after they're done viewing the porn.

happydays
happydays

did anyone read the transcript? WSJ - do you really consider this porn? could you at least question it? I am a conservative and I think the union did the right thing - Parents - let's hope your child never makes a mistake and have people treat him/her like you are. This was clearly a vendetta by an employee.

The guy was opening emails from his sister that contained jokes that i get everyday and see on Facebook all the time.

subject line of the e-mail was something like “practicing my aim” or “hunting season.”

When Harris opened the e-mail, there was a picture of a nude woman with a target painted on her nude derrière. The subject headlining section of the e-mail said “Fw: Image XXXXXXX.” The written content said: “Happy Wednesday!!!! I’ve been out practicing with my bow.”

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

trent
trent

Kira Dott, seriously?! Hope you see this as you clearly know nothing about Middleton and its history.

Middleton has had so many real scandals that were swept under the carpet over the last 30 years - Detective Cornwall and troubled teenagers, Doris S. the locker room cameras, Coaches and cocaine and cheerleaders, math teachers who get fired in Chicago for selling cocaine then hired in Middleton, football coaches and female students, suicides in the 90's, science teachers/coed cheerleader coaches and male cheerleaders, assistant principals' wives smoking not tobacco with students, teachers committing suicide..... it goes on and on in that white bread district. But this guy obviously made somebody mad and everyone jumps on misinformation. Sad, so sad.


trent
trent

Don't forget the recent "retirement" of the librarian at a grade school who was investigated by the Wisconsin DOJ for having child pornography on his home computer. The district said they found no evidence of him surfing kiddie porn at work. Of course not, he had real K through 5 kids to look at. Bet he gets his full pension are you going to picket Mr. Mann the principal for not identifying this problem before an outside source had to notify them of it?

blitzgirl
blitzgirl

You have to treat all equally. Why was he terminated and the others allowed to keep their jobs after viewing porn at work? They all initially should have been terminated---why was the exception to the others?

Buckyz
Buckyz

This story has run it's course. The union's took another huge hit and for that we should all be happy.

number6
number6

OMG I just imagined the picketers named. OMG I just imagined the commenters naked. How horrible I am.

Ego Vigilabo Vigilum
Ego Vigilabo Vigilum

Good thing all OTHER teachers and municipal, county, & state employees never abuse their taxpayer-funded email accounts, for whatever reason.

madison.com could lead the way and audit and perhaps block the domain addresses (.edu, .cityofmadison, .countyofdane,.gov, .wisc, etc.) from viewing content and commenting at this site.

Heck, they could even rat 'em out. You know, help employers root out some deadwood, and probably save taxpayers 100'$ of 1000'$ in public employee goldbricking.

Their site hits & commenting might fall off a cliff, add-click income might drop like a rock, but one shouldn't expect to profit from doing the right thing, should they?

adamman
adamman

None of my teachers looked at objectionable stuff online or misused email. Wait, uh, I guess there weren't computers when I was in school. But they never misused the stone tablets!

sarge
sarge

Engaging in public discourse with work computers on break time or at home with UW provided internet is actually ok with the university and quite possibly others of the entities you name ego, but nice of you to think of recruiting the urinal to a witch hunt. The funny thing is , given the partisan nature of the urinal, I'm certain only their legal dept has kept them from already doing what you suggest.

Robe13
Robe13

Funny how these parents didn't picket the other 9 teachers who had porn on their computer (they were not fired, that's why Harris is back. It was a wrongful firing, because he was treated differently than others). Also the teacher who was move was going to be a dean anyway, he is just a dean early than expected. If your interested go to this link, it has everything on this story.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/Middleton%20award.pdf

Bucky24
Bucky24

What a mess the Middleton district created and now the taxpayers are going to pay for it. Study hall does not equal science instruction?

bdholmes
bdholmes

The unemployment rate would be at 50% if we fired everyone who opened a dicey email forward at work...hypocrites.

howaboutthat
howaboutthat

Agreed. But are you willing to let your middle school daughter sit in his class?

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

st.howaboutthat,
hallowed be thy name, If you don't want your daughter around people that have looked at porn, you better keep her in her room. and i'll bet she can't see you anymore either.

adamman
adamman

I agree that Harris is not a danger to students. But he did something stupid that astounds most adults who know the misuse of a computer is not acceptable in the workplace. This whole boondoggle has cost taxpayers more that 7 figures and NOW there are further problems associated with his reassignment. The man needs to acknowledge that he engaged in conduct unacceptable in a school setting and just go away. How does he endure the embarrassment? And don't defend him by saying others did the same thing and were retained. They should get on the same bus with Harris. Geez, what a mess.

Robe13
Robe13

Right because a health teacher who looked up porn is okay as is a teacher who had a drinking history at school, and this is somehow worse.

allsixesandsevens
allsixesandsevens

The misuse of computers in the workplace is unavoidable. One could argue that schools are also a workplace for students. Wasn't there recently a story about the misuse of devices by students in the Middleton schools, in the form of a cheating scandal? The point is, until we get a grip on this stuff, it's going to happen on all levels.

The 7 figure price-tag on this is largely the result of an overreaction by the district, the media (of course, fueled by everyone, myself included by posting here), and policies that reflect an overly conservative approach to a relatively benign issue (relative, compared to other problems we could be trying to collectively solve.)

I agree that it would be helpful if all teachers in this incident apologized, but seriously, did the mistakes made here really justify the reactions?

It's really time to move on here. Let this guy get back to his job. I'm fairly sure at this point that he's learned his lesson.

sarge
sarge

Ten -15 years ago most people were doing this sort of thing on company email.

happydays
happydays

This is way overblown - just wait for the day that one of you on a witch hunt open an email that contains a "naughty" picture and get fired. Then you may understand how crazy this all is

aspyder
aspyder

I believe this is more than just 'opening' an unsavory e-mail. Wasn't he sharing it right there in school too?

But all that aside the union has an obligation to defend this guy and they did their job. A court appointed attorney may have to defend someone who commits some heinous crime. That doesn't mean the legal profession or the lawyer appointed necessarily are supportive of the defendant.

howaboutthat
howaboutthat

Takes a lot of gonads for this guy to walk into school on Monday. You would think he would probably had figured out by now that this situation has done so much damage to everyone involved, that he would man up and move on. Wasn't aware that another teacher was bumped to make room for this guy. Gotta love that!!!

irisK
irisK

This story reminds me of the game "telephone".
It seems that one says, the teacher looked at inappropriate material on his phone in the teacher's lounge. Another says he looked at pornography around children.
People wanting to be outraged at a teacher is the real reason.
The demonizing of teachers, and employees of schools continues.

howaboutthat
howaboutthat

C'mon iris, what a weak argument! Demonizing of teachers? Really? NOBODY is complaining about teachers as a group. Of all the positions out there, you are the only one to come up with this garbage. You deserve a gold star!!!

sarge
sarge

No it's true, you hate teachers most or you'd be equally or in fact more outraged by the sexual activity of walkers closest friends and supporters, all committed with public dollars and telecom equipment

gkmoynihan
gkmoynihan

Opening the email is what he was caught doing. We cannot know whether this was the minimum or the maximum of his policy breaking behavior.

The fact remains that despite this asinine situation Middleton's idiot school board decided to again recognize the Middleton Education Association as a bargaining unit. If any of them are reelected Middleton parents deserve every bit of this.

Oh BTW...what idiot kid is going to choose to hang out with a pervert rather than take the opportunity to do homework?

Again, bravo Middleton School board.

adamman
adamman

Actually, all the outrage is because there are so many exceptional and dedicated teachers that this guy and the others implicated stand out like sore thumbs. Teachers are charged with educating our children under the current system. It is an honor to teachers, school employees and administrators to hold them to a high standard.
Also, I have a few questions. Harris was suspended for 4 years? Is that correct? Does he get back pay for that time or has he been getting paid during his entire suspension? If so, this just exacerbates the stupidity of this situation. Does someone know about this aspect of the case?

cucuface
cucuface

For the 100th time... He wasn't going to XXX websites and watching live porn. He received email attachments, that contained photos or cartoons akin to what one would see in a Playboy magazine. He did not view these in the classroom or when children were present. You probably have worse, in your home.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

cucu, these people sounding off are anti union republican koch heads, blinded by propaganda from fox. when not watching fox or listening to hate radio their looking at porn themselves.
In fact the koch brothers are porn.

sarge
sarge

Yes the people who had nothing to say about Brian pierick and Tim russle and who are currently up thread defending walker for posing on the podium with a actual sex offender. These. Same folks and the state urinal seem to have had no real issue with our tax dollars , state property and our resources being used walker accolytes and the republican leadership to support a number of well documented extra marital affairs and adultery. Does Fitzgerald, Hopper , Voss or Dennis Smith ring any bells with you people? Each and every one of those people either gave jobs state jobs to their adulterous lovers and/or cheated in our tax payed government lodgings and used our tax payer payed autos and phones/ email to do this adulterous activity.

john q public
john q public

at what point is someone expected to be smart enough to stop opening emails from these friends at work? First time it happened to me at work, was the last time I read any emails from that person while at work. After the 1st few times, he lost the defense of "not knowing".

AngryWhipperSnapper
AngryWhipperSnapper

He opened some stupid emails from his sister and some friends.....have none of you ever opened a joke email that had what could be considered "sexually explicit" content in it???? Get off your high horses....he didn't expose children to anything. It's not like he was on bangbus.com or something. Christ, un-wad your panties and let the man do what he is paid to do. TEACH YOUR CHILDREN!

tomtom33
tomtom33

I wonder if any of you has ever had an impure thought?

HankandDagney
HankandDagney

If I had kids in that school I would pull them out. Harris is not fit to teach. It is time to have some standards.

otto105
otto105

Then home school your kids and stop polluting the wider gene pool.

Crow Barr
Crow Barr

And don't let them twitter while at home. Just one kid needs to include #hotty in a tweet and they are all off and gawking.
(Eggo---I made #hotty up, let me know if it leads you to any Bears cheerleaders)

Ego Vigilabo Vigilum
Ego Vigilabo Vigilum

Crow Barr;

"(Eggo---I made #hotty up, let me know if it leads you to any Bears cheerleaders)"

The short answer would be no, but I thought about assembling the bares cheerleaders at my place; extending an olive branch kinda thing.

My structural engineering background strongly suggests the floor might not hold.

sarge
sarge

I vote our kids can only be taught be celibate priests or perhaps Mormon fundamentalists

Lisa B
Lisa B

The really sad story is that a beloved teacher at Kromrey was bumped, under union rules, to make room for the offensive instructor. What a travesty for the students.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

Another hit man from ALEC.

spooky tooth
spooky tooth

I'm much more offended by the popups on madison.com.

Anyone else getting these really annoying popups when you accidently run your cursor over them?

aspyder
aspyder

no pop ups for me spooky.
FYI I'm using the latest Firefox with 'block pop-up windows' checked.

sarge
sarge

Lisa why are you repeating this lie? Are you a liar?

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